well lets face it the nomads lied through their collective back teeth as todays laugh confirms, the question begs to be asked why was the nomads 'licence' not put out to 'tender' surely handing it to a bunch of soccer fans who have admitted they need the RL TV money to bail out their floundering soccer club, can hardly be called 'A GOOD THING FOR RL'
I await tomorows little laugh for the day from Wrexham, Bridgend, Neath or even Red Hall.

Can you provide a link for "to a bunch of soccer fans who have admitted they need the RL TV money to bail out their floundering soccer club" - but I think this is just another anti Wales comment.
Regarding "lied through their collective back teeth" - did they really? Do you really know what happened ? Nope, just another anti Wales comment. One person effected the Welsh club, just like (as you know) if AT left us we would be struggling big time too.
What does the "Nomads" actually have to do with our club ? Nowt.

Quote Wrexham FC chief executive Paul Retout confirmed the move and says it can help secure the football club's future. Retout said: "The deal is very important for the future of Wrexham FC. The club cannot survive if only 1,800 fans are coming through the gates. "We needed to do something to diversify and to protect the Racecourse going forward." '" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 387114.stm

Quote Wrexham FC chief executive Paul Retout confirmed the move and says it can help secure the football club's future. Retout said: "The deal is very important for the future of Wrexham FC. The club cannot survive if only 1,800 fans are coming through the gates. "We needed to do something to diversify and to protect the Racecourse going forward." '" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 387114.stm

Nothing about RL TV money keeping the football club afloat I'm afraid. That bit was tagged on by Fred for the benefit of keeping the bad feeling going on this mb towards the Welsh.

""It would be fantastic to have 10,000 fans rocking the Racecourse just like the old days." - if they want to create this then good luck to them. To me they help each other.

Thats the one Steve

BAD BBC FOR TELLING THE TRUTH OVER THE NOMADS BAD BBC or is it another anti welsh comment





as for the alleged lying well clubs are supposed to check an overseas players visa. they said they did 'history' now refutes that, is that proof enough or shall we await the non forthcoming RFL enquiry? then again I suppose they could claim Mr Magoo checked them, Im sure a few would believe it.



Its a disaster an embarrasement and to try and justify it or even defend it is really beyond belief, as for AT yes I have said the same thing many times, but the difference being the RFL wouldnt help us like they have the nomads, and yes its nothing to do with our club but I bet that even if 50% of the money wasted in Wales was put into grass roots rugby it would provide for a generation of budding Rugby League future stars not a pay packet for a few (well a lot actually and Nobles comments today proves that) Australians. And no Im not anti-aussie just ANTI WASTE.
Plus as it is pointed out to me on many occasions this is a Rugby League forum and it is Rugby League related.

So what are the nomads bringing to the 'table' umpteen thousand fans who will spend money like no tomorow, or else a big cheque from SKY TV? I'll let others comment on that, iif you think that Crusaders have been a big success then so be it but I like many others live in the real world, and the opening comments in the article say it all.

And no im not anti Wales far from it my ancestors were Welsh, just anti waste especially of money that could be spent elsewhere for the good of the game. I bet Leigh East and Leigh Miners would like even 5% of the money thats been wasted over the years in S Wales, I know I would.

Well done Fred. Thats me in my place. Its the easiest thing in the world to be a negative, and not see anything positive. We could pick away at all heartland clubs, but whats the point - its the RFL's fault for misrunning these clubs. Blame Blame.
You also seem to insinuate that I defend the Welsh/RFL over the bundling of the VISA saga. Which I don't and would like a link to prove otherwise (:winkicon_smile.gif.
Still waiting for the link about all that TV money going to football club that you posted.
TBH the bbc write up was quite fair and a good read. There is positives in them reports too.

Where have I said they have been a success ? Link please (:winkicon_smile.gif. We don't know, but you simply say they won't be because after 1 season in the top flight in the middle of a massive economic crash they are struggling. Its going to be a long journey before we see the benefits similar to London. The real world is expansion has to work - think small be small that is the real world. The real world is recognising just how diificult it is for our sport and other sports, and many many businesses at the moment - real world.


At what point did our discussion move to me accusing you of being racist ?

The "Anti Welsh" comment is about RL. We was talking about the sport in Wales which you seemingly give no positives whatsoever. That makes you RL Anti Welsh - just to cover bases that I'm not accusing you of being racist

sorry clicked on wrong one

Not be the first time ive been accused of being a racist it came with the shiny buttons and daft hat



Sorry but if you really think that Wrexham FC are doing it for the good of RL then that would be a firast for any sport (except of course for the RFL who have lifted the profile of RU in wales over the last few months

)

I had no trouble whatsoever when Cardiff blue dragons started up as they were built (and fell) on Welsh money, but WreCkem Crusaders have really pulled a big blanket of wool over peoples and the RFL's eyes they have lied to the border agency (obvious lies as explained) and lets face it even someone as uneducated as I could see holes that were as big as the millenium stadium in the business model they were putting forward, all built on a mans word who had already shafted the people of Bridgend (some residents words I spoke to when out there in 2007 not mine)and took his ball home when the Welsh RFU saw through him.
As for positives well there are none, the whole affair is tainted with the smell of mismanagement and a whiff of lies told officially and unofficially.
If you ever speak to Starbug he proposed a team in N wales a few years ago something I agreed with him over, done correctly something which this debacle hasn't been done (which even the most die hard welsh fan must agree).

As for blaming the recession come on even when they gave away tickets the gates they got were pitifull, its not even that the numbers grew year on year, they showed the people down there didn't want RL even less than our own townspeople dont.

Yes I am a sceptic but also a realist, it should have been N Wales then S Wales with perhaps a midlands club thrown in the mix, this has been and is still a running joke something that the Welsh RU is weeing itsself over in glee.

Split hairs as much as you want.

Wrexham FC needs Super League more than SL rugby needs Wrexham because when WFC realise its not the cash cow they hoped it would be it will all go wonky.

Not said this at all. Its in the interests of both parties. I hope it works out. Do you?


They had similar average than us. OK it was boosted by Millenium weekend fans (didn't go so don't know), but we have lots of SL clubs within less distance of Bridgend and Cardiff and can't persuade them to come to us. Its easy to think giving free tickets away bumps up gates etc, but as we found out even giving free tickets doesn't always lift the gates if not done properly.


I'm a realist also. If a bloke wants to put money into our game from South Wales then you welcome him. RU will be happy to see RL fail, just like some RL fans seem to do. While its just as likely a young Leigh kid can play for England RU one day kind of shows the battle we are up against.

They need each other. Lets just hope it works. Also lets stop posting more about Crusaders on our mb than our fellow clubs in the Championship that are struggling.

As for splitting hairs :

Full quote. According to this they openly have stated they need the RL TV money to bail them out. Which they have not, and no link given yet. Its a post just to lift the anti Crusaders on this mb, and have a chance to have a go at RFL again. It wasn't long ago that certain fans at a LISA meeting was "splitting hairs" against our club - remember Oct 06 ?

Again NOT anti Wreckem or RFL just hate waste, just like re posting Steves link is a waste, do you seriously think the soccer lot would entertain a rl club without money, are you seriously trying to say that the RL club will not be paying any rent or bills at Wrexham? Hey Mr Thomas theres some guys in Wales who are giving away free stadium places can we share as well, get real. Not hair splitting at all just plain old common sense.
Oct 06 was a long long time ago and that didnt work either.
EVERY club in the championship is struggling but dont get the help or patience that the nomads have had from the RFL.

You are trying to defend the undefendable, by attempting to deflect criticism even onto our own club.

i wish you would give over fred everybody else on every other champ/champ1 site agrees with you. how can you be right in what you are saying come on

If you're looking for a link showing Rupert Murdoch dropping off a bagfull of used 20's at the Racecourse, then you know it's not there.

However, unless Celtic win the lottery, find another multi-millionaire investor daft enough to throw a million a year at the cause, or suddenly get 10000 paying fans per match - all of which are as likely as it happening to us, then a very high (almost disproportionate) %age of their income will come from SL, which in turn comes from Sky.

This wont just go on wages and other club costs, it will go towards rent. To Wrexham FC. And thats what their Chairman means when he says it will help secure his football clubs future.

Again cross wires here. Where have I said the football club will not benefit? Please provide the quote. I have stated it will benefit both clubs. Why would the football club be interested in RL all of a sudden? Its obvious

What kind of help? Clubs don't help themselves. The game badly needs outside investment, which only a higher profile game can create. Throwing what little money is available at badly run clubs will have a short term impact of delaying the inevitable.


Again where do I deflect this by critisizing our club? And also am I really defending the undefensable, and if so what is it I am posting that says this. Mistakes have been made - anyone can pick up on those and it doesn't take a Mastermind winner to figure that out.
At the end of the day if the direction of the way the game is being run is so wrong, the clubs have the ultimate power. So they are either thinking of themselves (happened since forever) or they agree - including us.

Agree. Don't see the problem in that. Both clubs benefit. Why would they both go into this otherwise?

Because (in my opinion only so don't be asking for any bloody links

) it won't benefit Celtic in the long run. It's the last act of desparation on their behalf to remain valid enough to play SL. Once Leighton Samuel threw the towel in, they searched the area they sold for investors and came up with nothing. The whole concept is built on sand. It's nothing more than a stay of execution.

If they had the support of a large community, beit Bridgend, Neath, Newport, wherever, even some from Cardiff or Swansea they would still be playing in that community, but they havn't. They have had to whore themselves around Wales to remain anywhere near viable for SL. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why this might be? Dont blame the flatcappers, we have no involvement whatsoever in these communities, so just ask yourself that question for a moment.

A couple of hundred season ticket holders (I think it was 280 IIRC), a few thousand visiting fans on the 'new-ground-weekend-away' syndrome, folk on free tickets, and semi-interested bystanders unfortunatly isn't enough. They've lost money hand over fist (and when they get round to publishnig their already late accounts it will prove so) and are on their backside.

They need massive investment and paying rent to WFC whilst playing in an region that cares as much for RL as South Wales does isn't a long term plan its a short term disaster in the making.

Moving to Wrexham will give WFC a couple of seasons rent, but if they get any after that then I would be very suprised. They will be no more viable in SL than any other club renting a stadium with gates of 3000. Take note Leigh fans.



I've said before, if we're going to do it, do it properly. Take £3m a year out of the SL budget every year and finance a team in South Wales for as long as it needs to be able finance itself, or prove that its a waste of time and money.

Relying on rich businessmen with a history of throwing his rugby ball out of his pram, or football clubs who are on their backsides isn't sustainable.

have aread at what you wrote, you mention AT Chairman of?
then you mention the debacle that was the attempt in 06?
Then mention every club etc...

Mistakes were made now on three seperate times to get RL in Wales every time it has failed so whats new? except of course this time they wasted about a Million£ of good money the game as a whole could have spent.

your right mate, the signs were there from the start, you build a club on poor foundations and its bound to come a tumbling down, I just hope for the sake of RL that Wrexham do do well, but where are the hoards of RL fans there? Surely the Midlands would have been a better bet?

Do you mean What is so wrong in that ? You agree too. Most clubs in RL have a major backer of some sort to keep that club going. If Samuels had the money or commitment then we wouldn't have all this talk or problems now. We would have a club not being subsidised as much, and promoting RL in Wales for little cost.


Then mention every club etc...
Not sure what you mean here. I used '06 as example about the splitting hairs comment AD made - when if you remember hysteria took over some fans about when and what the LISA money was spent on at that time. It got out of hand at the LISA meeting, before knowing the facts.


It has been tried once. Forget what happened in days of the stereo typical days of winter rugby - and the crazy divide that existed then. We are in different era now, where RU & RL actually work with each other and is possible to appreciate both codes especially while we are in summer now. The game is a lot more glamorous for kids to watch than it used to be - I'm talking about the ones new to the game. Dipping our toe in Wales won't get us anywhere, but a real comitment and a load of cash will start the ball rolling. Its massive if they succeed in 10 or so years time.

To me its amazing they managed to find someone to take it over. Maybe there are probably incentives included from RFL to get the deal done. But lets give them a chance. I like the bit about 10,000 crowds - maybe in fantasy land but better than being negative. The whole point (wish RFL would admit this too) is to generate interest in Wales, which only a FT competitive SL side representing them can do.
Notts County and Portsmouth are struggling depending on some rich unknowns keeping them going. If City's owners walk out tomorrow, we would be going into administration in the same week.
Samuels was too good to be true. Would Samuels have taken over had the financial landscape been different and same as now - most probably not. Should RFL have let them in SL with benefit of hindsight? No. Crusaders are now on their knees with bad press as their backdrop. Its all done now though. Lets just hope they can get through it and repay the sport years down the line.

Quite simply the cost to have a potential successful expansion of a SL club is 10 million over and above any normal monies they would recieve

As Alex's dad has put , the cost is 3 million per season , for at least 6 years [ 2 licence periods , and even then there is no guarantee of success

To have a successful Championship expansion would require around a 10 th of that for the same period or longer [ so £ 300,000.00 per season and that would be as long as you had somebody willing to run the thing for free and a stadium available rent free as well and the club recieving the normal revenue streams as if they owned the place

Anything else is a waste of time