I guess that's the fans through the door bit? You are likely right here but haven't Halifax's fans rose a fair bit whilst form has improved even with no promotion? You can't just blame this their are other options. Leigh's crowds should rise as playing very well over last what 18 months or so but also LSV is one of if not the most expensive ticket in the Championship which isn't ideal.

On loss of revenue possibilities. Would Leigh have not been losing money on Hilton Park, hence the move? I know Saints were happy to leave Knowlsey Road asap in the end as the maintanance costs were exceeding what could be brought in commercially.

Are you sure about that? £14 on the North Stand which, from our away games so far, is the same price as Batley and a quid cheaper than Barrow!

A problem IMO Leigh have is that they hold themselves back, you can moan about lack of fans attending anymore but when your always saying 'what's the point under licensing', 'we don't want to be a SL club as it is now', the 'LSV is already costing too much' etc etc, your hardly saying to people... Luck this is a new era for Leigh RL why not jump on board and help contribute to it's sucves are you?

Widnes on the picth may not have been great (I say better than given credit for anyway) but as a club we put out a positive forward thinking image 'reaching for the Sky's' 'DARE TO DREAM' why can't Leigh put out that message?

Unfortunately we can't go in there and is £16 for us (draw in away fans

) and it was £18 the other year!

You make a good point though, was reading the Hunslet board out of curiosity before are game and a lot were saying may give a miss due to ticket price but as you say is also £14 (all over) which is the same as the likes of Batley, Fax & Barrow yet MUCH better facilities (as yours). Yorkshire folk seem to have some weird myth that we charge stupid prices when in reality they are no different.

We try after every game in the town centre mate, as we have said before they always ask how did we get on, WE they have probably not been for years.

Noticed that thread and have had a few on Widnes boards in the past. You'll always get some like that but sometimes you luck at who asks and think why didn't you just go, especially big games.

Have mates like that too but after a few years what can you do? But no question come NRC final they'll be there shirt an all getting well up for it

Saints had a different problem to us , their corporate was almost nonexistent and very poor , but with them being a high profile club they couldn't maximise that , ourselves however did quite well out of the corporate at HP , better than we do now , due to price , a day out at the LSV with meal and food will cost double what it did at HP , and not be as good quality , and not make the club as much profit

Then we have the bar concessions , once sold for over 100 k per season at HP , now we get , nothing , then stadium advertising , another good earner with us being opposite one of the busiest ASDA s in the country , merchandise sales in a rent free shop at HP , unworkable at our level at the LSV

Our only revenue stream of consequence at the LSV is through the turnstiles , and as we all know at all RL clubs let alone other sports , that is the most difficult thing to address , especially when you don't have a clear guaranteed prize to play for , one that your floating fair weather fan can understand

Can we build up a fan base that could put us in a position to be able to realistically bid for a SL place ?

Yes , give me a million pound to spend marketing the club over 5/6 years with another 2 million quids worth of free tickets , and I'll get an average of over 3,000 per match

Other than that , well , who knows

Steve O Connor knew 1 week after the last decision that as long as you ticked the box , you were in , easy then to put a positive spin and a forward thinking image , couple that with your ' million pound profit '

and away you go

There will be no more guarantees , no more definates , we just wait for somebody to die , and then we have to hope we can replace them and not suffer the same fate , sell that to your town ?

Nothing stopping you ticking a box early and doing similar was there.

Given that Fax have been playing by far the most attractive RL outside of Saints ( including the rest of SL in that ) , their attendances have rise ( real attendances , not freebies who didn't attend ) by about 300 , not exactly massive , is it ? , chuck in P and R at the end and they'd have had another 5/600 at least on top of what they got , possibly even more

Yes there was

You lot , the promise was made days after the last decision , and they weren't going to let two up , unless we'd managed a 5,000 average and a 2 million turnover

An oft peddled fabrication is still a fabrication.

You've got no proof of this and you can't even argue that under the rules laid down years ago Widnes are not the best club.

I'm not arguing you aren't , never have done , ever

So the fact you failed to 'tick the performance box' and appl for a franchise is that Widnes had been promised promotion already

No that isn't the reason , widnes are the only viable club to move up to a licenced SL , that decision was made in 2008

Just as the decision to move up the Celtic Crusaders was made in 2006 not 2008

I am not criticizing Widnes , or even the RFL , I am just stating what happened , jou can choose to believe it or not

Stephen Vaughn wrote a cheque for a substantial VAT bill and classed it as a Directors loan. When he wanted to jump ship he called the loan in. There was no way on god's green earth, (even as a united front) that Jim Quinn or Lol Ogburn were going to pay that back when they could put the club into administration and buy it back for a snip. They gambled and lost out.

So as a club you just don't bother then based on what you believe to be the case?

So why did he personally write the cheque in the 1 st place ?

Don't blame him for paying a VAT bill to keep the club operating , or in reality for asking for it back , possibly when it was tine to write another one

Don't bother what ?

Applying for SL ? no , not much point

Playing RL , well hopefully yes

Growing your club.

This is Stephen Vaughan we are talking about. I think everyone could have a decent guess of why he'd pay stuff out of his own pocket yet request it back through the club

J20, This is a true story and why the non SL clubs will die without a sugar daddy or a change in P&R/Structures.

Took a mate to the Fev game, new to RL, Soccer ST holder, Director of a big company, not from the area but watched a bit on Sky.

Loved the game, the atmosphere, etc said to me afterwards that its looking good for us to make SL for next year. I then told him how franchising worked and that we cant get promoted until whenever the next one is in 3-5 years. He looked at me as if I was taking the mick, and asked how can you sell that to sponsors and fans - I didnt have an answer and he didnt have any suggestions.

The VT lovers can pontificate all they like on how the unclean should behave but at the coalface the reality is that unless you are assured of a franchise eg Widnes, CC, Salford or that promotion will be won if you win the comp, clubs fan base will shrink and investors will be at local level/value only. Thus making the gap bigger and the clubs weaker until an Aussie feeder club structure ring fenced at the top is implemented.

The reality is that after the announcement only a handful of clubs will feel the pain and they will be Fax, Fev, Leigh and possibly Barrow (ie Des pulls out). Haven have already taken the hit, as have Oldham.

We have a tough call to make, to carry on dancing to the pipers tune knowing the end result or grow some danglies and say right thats how it is, its survival of the fittest so whats in our best interests - break away again and get our own voice and vision.

I will tell you exactly why... the books were in an incredible mess. Unfortunately we have never really employed a professional book-keeper or accountant until we have found ourselves in serious trouble. The club for many many years has been run as a little village club rather than the sports business it actually is.

I'm not saying anything fraudulent went on, just a complete mess. SV did not carry out any sort of inspection of the books and this tax bill came as something of a nasty surprise when he did employ someone to start looking into the accounts.

I don't blame him for writing the cheque... I was simply answering your point about the club going into administration and making the point that it was not to do with us not owning the ground. Someone who has been called into the club on a number of occasions to look into the bookkeeping when things have gone horribly wrong have told me that the club could made to run very healthily with the right person in charge. Unfortunately our past is littered with stories of the like of un-cashed cheques for season tickets being found in a drawer and out of the three month payment period.

Yet you still complain that the decision was made long ago even this is something you assume that doesn't ring true.

to be able to make the step up , and fortunate enough to have somebody willing to bankroll all that hard work that will be needed

Enjoy