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| Why?
The 'farce' is all of Salford's own making.
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| [quote="Jack Gaskell":2bk9azmw]Why?
The 'farce' is all of Salford's own making.[/quote:2bk9azmw]
If they can secure funding then it will be good for the competition if they don’t have to dismantle their side and can run without requiring constant bailouts. If they don’t secure investment, and quickly, then I agree that it is simply a reflection of their unrealistic spending versus income.
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| [quote="Jack Gaskell":1b9c6cqh]Why?
The 'farce' is all of Salford's own making.[/quote:1b9c6cqh]
so fans can draw a veil and pretend things are ok?
rather than take note of what eddie hearn had to say ?
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| [quote:36tze9r4][quote:36tze9r4][/quote:36tze9r4][/quote:36tze9r4][quote="satanicmills":36tze9r4]so fans can draw a veil and pretend things are ok?
rather than take note of what eddie hearn had to say ?[/quote:36tze9r4]
I don't see a link between Hearn's comments and Salford's plight.
The Hearn interview includes his comments upon the lack of high profile sportspeople in SL compared with darts. There is an element of self-congratulation in his comments in so far as the high level funding deal that he has been able to negotiate for darts from SKY.
What I have not seen in the interview is either his comments upon the financial position or predicament of RL as a sport nor indeed any comments whatsoever on the plight of Salford. I do not see a link in his interview.
What I have seen is Martyn Sadler's recent article in Total Rugby League in which he draws that potential link. I stress the word 'potential'
Despite Sadler's comments I don't see any persuasive argument for why SL should treat Salford as a special case nor why other clubs should bail them out. As respected an RL journalist as Sadler is I find his 'solution' on this particular issue to be somewhat naive and fanciful. I really will eat my hat if the club owners dip into their respective pockets to bail out Salford with a collective owners handout!
The argument seems to be that if Salford are stripped of their best players then by implication their team will struggle because they will have to field a team of academy players simply to fulfil fixtures. Games against them will be largely meaningless. This in turn will be to the detriment of the sport
Forgive me but last season we had 2 fairly atrocious teams in London and Hull who did not have much hope of beating anybody other than themselves and fixtures against them were pretty meaningless except as an exercise in boosting points differential.
I didn't hear cries of outrage for either club last season, nor did i hear arguments that because they were so poor that it was symptomatic of the end of RL as we know it. It didn't happen so I don't see why it should happen this season if it is Salford who are the whipping boys.
Bradford & Widnes were allowed to sink into the Championship where they were forced to face financial reality and to cut their cloth accordingly. Both clubs are, i believe, still in existence and are largely semi-professional outfits. Life goes on and surely this will also have to happen to Salford.
The issue of SL being a loss maker and the clubs being dependent upon rich owners to write off losses is a big issue and the answer or answers is/are beyond me. However, i do not accept that the ship is sinking. Sure, it needs fixing, but propping Salford up is not part of that solution.
There are owners with sound business heads on who have good ideas about how to attract funding and how to increase the profile of the sport and how to attract new investment and boost attendances. RL could do a lot worse than listening to Derek's very persuasive views on the subject.
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| If there is a pathway for Rugby League in the UK, it must be Leigh and Hull KR. These two teams have built up a following from a very low base. In the case of Leigh of Leigh they have bumbled around at attendance of 3000-3500, with an aging demographic for many years with only the occasional bump in the Super League years. The club is now thriving and averaging around 8000 and is on an upward trajectory with a good spread of age groups. The ultimate goal is to average 10000, which is absolutely amazing for a town with a population of 45000 (of course the club tend to pickup fans from the old Leigh borough (hello to Bent & Bongser) In my day, Atherton was full of Wigan fans).
Salford with a successful team and playing at a relatively new stadium (Capacity 12000) only averaged 5500. The Salford games at the LSV are always well attended, and it appears that many Salford fans are boycotting the home games but attending away games. Salford fans are fanatical in their support, but they seem unable to grow their user base. They complain about the location of the Salford Community Stadium, but it does not seem to affect Sale Sharks or the millions that make the trip to the Trafford Centre every year. This is the real issue for Super League, the inability to fill 10-12K stadiums every week, when the product is so much better than what Rugby Union has to offer. Derek has managed what was considered impossible and if Salford could find a way to increase the fan base then Salford can start to live within their means. Until that point they are going to have to sell their best players on a yearly basis.
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| We, and most other clubs, are lucky to have a wealthy benefactor otherwise more clubs would be in this position. Yes, Salford are guilty of spending more than they could afford and are now paying the price. However, the main culprit in the state of the game is the RFL. They have mismanaged the game for years now and as a result of their incompetence we are seeing a dwindling TV deal. It's about time these suits were ousted from running this game into the ground. Some years ago we could have had Eddie Hearns taking control of the game. Seeing what he has done with darts I am sure Rugby League would be in a much better position with finances and publicity. I'm sure the wider British public would know of the star players in Rugby League. Instead the RFL give IMG a 12 year contract to reimagine Rugby League and they churn out the same stuff we have done before (licensing) and the bloke in charge of Rugby League goes back home to Australia!! The fault lies with the RFL and IMG, and it's about time they were shown the red card and make way for people who know how to market a product.
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| [quote="Septimius Severus":2iu1o3ec]......The ultimate goal is to average 10000, which is absolutely amazing for a town with a population of 45000 (of course the club tend to pickup fans from the old Leigh borough (hello to Bent & Bongser) In my day, Atherton was full of Wigan fans.[/quote:2iu1o3ec]
Disrespectful, Sep, you whippersnapper. Bongser was born in Westleigh (The Firs) and Leigh has always been his team. Your "old Leigh Borough" as you phrase it, comprised (from 1898) Westleigh, Bedford, Pennington and a chunk of Atherton extending from St Mary the Virgin (Leigh Parish Church) to Orchard Lane. The April Fools Day Act of 1974 made us all supposed Wigginers but the landmines (outside branches of Greggs, Waterfields & Dawsons) and pillboxes (outside chemists) that Bongser and Co have funded have eradicated most pie-ayters in Bent and driven many of the remaining underground.
The post CCup victory parade (open top bus ride for pi$hed players, you remember the one) went through all the traditional six vills of the Ancient Parish of Leigh (W, B & P meet at St Mary's). Derek knows his onions.
The new parliamentary constituency of "Leigh & Atherton" also includes most of Tyldesley (including all of Shack, Charlie (how are you (where are you?))) and a chunk of Astley. We are reuniting and are all behind The Leopards!
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| I find the comparison with darts awkward. Mainly for accessibility. To participate in darts you need a dart board and some darts, rugby is quite convoluted to organise when you think about it, football and cricket are far more simple.
As much as I dislike Wigan council and their endless Wigan orientated vanity projects I suppose it's not Salford council and their increasingly sunk cost rugby league team they have to act as benefactor for.
Still, I suppose it's good the tax payer bailed out all the banks after the 2008 crash
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| Welcome to the party Bumper - you Ozzie Legend.
Could you not find a Newtown Jets team crest for your team supporting ID? A sepia print photo of your old mugshot would also complete your 'new' ensemble.
Welcome anyway.
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| That's more like it - that's a real beaut of a mugshot.
If we had a couple of forwards like you Bumper then silverware would be ours for the taking.
Excellent effort
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| On a completely different matter could I humbly suggest that Leigh twin themselves with the Newtown Jets.
If anyone here has not read the history of that club then I recommend a quick google and Wiki read - enjoy.
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It is getting close to the launch of the 2025 Super League season and there is a lot of introspection about facets of the game. Eddie Hearn believes the game is dying, Matty Peet believes that the salary cap needs to be re-examined. https://www.totalrl.com/wigan-warriors- ... alary-cap/ Salford are staring down the barrel, with a need to balance books and avoid slipping out of the Super League on performance based on IMG ratings.
These issues are not unrelated, and the salary cap has remained static at £2.1M for several seasons. Successful teams like St Helens recorded financial losses of over £1.3M for 2023 with the forecast expected to get worse in the immediate future. On average every team is losing in the region of £1M a year, so why would Matty Peet advocate increasing the cap? The answer is simple he does not pay the discrepancy in income and expenditure. Mike Danson the current owner of Wigan Warriors is a billionaire, currently willing to absorb the costs.
Salford are at the other end of the spectrum, running a team that finished fourth in the league, with a total player salary believed to be £400k below the salary cap. Salford are still making a £500K loss, without any benefactor able to soak up the cost. Community Share issues and player sales have not filled the void of being without an owner with deep pockets. The 2024 season witnessed Castleford reduce the playing budget to £1.4M and Hull FC off-loaded most of the overseas playing contingent. Castleford finished 10th and Hull FC finished 11th on the same points as London. The achievement of Salford finishing 4th is amazing, but in reality it was a team that they cannot afford to run. Interviews with Warrington and St Helens, suggest both clubs are looking at ways to reduce the costs and minimise the losses.
The Super League owners meeting 14th January 2025 decided not to allow any dispensations for the proposed “Fire Sale” at Salford. Up for debate was a one year quota exemption for teams wanting to buy Salford overseas players, and to allow Salary cap to be breached to help Salford. The understanding is that both votes were for the status quo, with many owners wary of any additional costs which they would need to pay for personally.
Eddie Hearn believes that the sport has no Superstars in the UK game, Bevan French, Jack Welsby and Mickey Lewis are not nationally known because Rugby League is not regularly covered in the national press. The media landscape of 2025 is different to the start of this century, news is available if you are prepared to look, otherwise it will pass you by. Of the three RL sites I use regularly Total Rugby League and it’s association with League Express is the most professional, but content is limited. Love Rugby League tries to provide regular articles with some journalistic ability. Serious About Rugby League is clickbait, with infrequent journalistic content. Compared to other sports this is totally inadequate.
In terms of fanbase Super League sits below League 1 Football, where average attendances sit around the 10K mark. Castleford and Leigh are just below this figure, but Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield are closer to 5K. If Super League clubs can get 10K through the turnstiles, then there will be a need to look at the stadia being used. Hull KR with only 3 stands may need to expand to cope with demand, and currently they are restricting visiting fans to below the recommended 10% which in my opinion is not good or fair to the visiting teams.
The SKY tv deal is on a downward trajectory, but as a bonus to fans all games are now available to watch via the SKY Sports+ app. Worries about attendances at games, appears to be unfounded, with only a slight dip of 7K recorded mostly due to Wakefield and London trading places. Leigh, Hull KR and Castleford witnessed an upsurge along with Wigan and Leeds. Many people are concerned with the lack of visibility of IMG when it comes to promoting Super League. When original deal was brokered, it was hoped they could negotiate a better TV deal. A bigger deal, means more money for the Super League clubs and a more sustainable sport. RFL commercial needs to learn to monetise the vast array of streaming services, ideally finding a TV partner for the Championship to be televised on a Monday night, now that SKY’s coverage for the 2025 season will stretch from Thursday through to Sunday. Reduced number of matches clashing particularly on a Friday will be down to only two games. This should increase viewing figures. Sky Sports should also make all games available for streaming for up to a month.
Rugby League is flourishing in Australia and the surrounding territories. The growth of the NRL suggests that the product is not the issue, and that Super League needs to managed better. Will Las Vegas Rugby League fest, be the saviour and break the game in the United States or is it just a publicity stunt? Only time will tell, but with the NRL pushing the event it stands a better chance than anything RFL commercial can manage.
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It is getting close to the launch of the 2025 Super League season and there is a lot of introspection about facets of the game. Eddie Hearn believes the game is dying, Matty Peet believes that the salary cap needs to be re-examined. https://www.totalrl.com/wigan-warriors- ... alary-cap/ Salford are staring down the barrel, with a need to balance books and avoid slipping out of the Super League on performance based on IMG ratings.
These issues are not unrelated, and the salary cap has remained static at £2.1M for several seasons. Successful teams like St Helens recorded financial losses of over £1.3M for 2023 with the forecast expected to get worse in the immediate future. On average every team is losing in the region of £1M a year, so why would Matty Peet advocate increasing the cap? The answer is simple he does not pay the discrepancy in income and expenditure. Mike Danson the current owner of Wigan Warriors is a billionaire, currently willing to absorb the costs.
Salford are at the other end of the spectrum, running a team that finished fourth in the league, with a total player salary believed to be £400k below the salary cap. Salford are still making a £500K loss, without any benefactor able to soak up the cost. Community Share issues and player sales have not filled the void of being without an owner with deep pockets. The 2024 season witnessed Castleford reduce the playing budget to £1.4M and Hull FC off-loaded most of the overseas playing contingent. Castleford finished 10th and Hull FC finished 11th on the same points as London. The achievement of Salford finishing 4th is amazing, but in reality it was a team that they cannot afford to run. Interviews with Warrington and St Helens, suggest both clubs are looking at ways to reduce the costs and minimise the losses.
The Super League owners meeting 14th January 2025 decided not to allow any dispensations for the proposed “Fire Sale” at Salford. Up for debate was a one year quota exemption for teams wanting to buy Salford overseas players, and to allow Salary cap to be breached to help Salford. The understanding is that both votes were for the status quo, with many owners wary of any additional costs which they would need to pay for personally.
Eddie Hearn believes that the sport has no Superstars in the UK game, Bevan French, Jack Welsby and Mickey Lewis are not nationally known because Rugby League is not regularly covered in the national press. The media landscape of 2025 is different to the start of this century, news is available if you are prepared to look, otherwise it will pass you by. Of the three RL sites I use regularly Total Rugby League and it’s association with League Express is the most professional, but content is limited. Love Rugby League tries to provide regular articles with some journalistic ability. Serious About Rugby League is clickbait, with infrequent journalistic content. Compared to other sports this is totally inadequate.
In terms of fanbase Super League sits below League 1 Football, where average attendances sit around the 10K mark. Castleford and Leigh are just below this figure, but Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield are closer to 5K. If Super League clubs can get 10K through the turnstiles, then there will be a need to look at the stadia being used. Hull KR with only 3 stands may need to expand to cope with demand, and currently they are restricting visiting fans to below the recommended 10% which in my opinion is not good or fair to the visiting teams.
The SKY tv deal is on a downward trajectory, but as a bonus to fans all games are now available to watch via the SKY Sports+ app. Worries about attendances at games, appears to be unfounded, with only a slight dip of 7K recorded mostly due to Wakefield and London trading places. Leigh, Hull KR and Castleford witnessed an upsurge along with Wigan and Leeds. Many people are concerned with the lack of visibility of IMG when it comes to promoting Super League. When original deal was brokered, it was hoped they could negotiate a better TV deal. A bigger deal, means more money for the Super League clubs and a more sustainable sport. RFL commercial needs to learn to monetise the vast array of streaming services, ideally finding a TV partner for the Championship to be televised on a Monday night, now that SKY’s coverage for the 2025 season will stretch from Thursday through to Sunday. Reduced number of matches clashing particularly on a Friday will be down to only two games. This should increase viewing figures. Sky Sports should also make all games available for streaming for up to a month.
Rugby League is flourishing in Australia and the surrounding territories. The growth of the NRL suggests that the product is not the issue, and that Super League needs to managed better. Will Las Vegas Rugby League fest, be the saviour and break the game in the United States or is it just a publicity stunt? Only time will tell, but with the NRL pushing the event it stands a better chance than anything RFL commercial can manage.
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| A very thorough and fair summary of the game as it stands.I maintain it was farcical to expect skint owners to bail Salford out.The buzzards were hovering looking for bargains.I am not sure on the atest fine details are preferred bidders negotiating with the rfl or Saford .Who decides wheer players go rfl or salford.
rfl is also skint they have arranged ashes series but that yield wont go far.
Will a struggling sky reduce our payment next time round Can we find other partners
Perhaps the muted takeover by the nrl is the way forward as they have the appropiate negotiating/marketing skills
The pie master wants a bigger slice seems the only way will be fewer teams at the top level Wilkin says 8 teams thats not from his own deductions is he pushing someones agenda
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| [quote="satanicmills":1kh0xusn].....Who decides wheer players go rfl or salford.....[/quote:1kh0xusn]
...or the players themselves? Surely it should be the last. Outside forces may try to sway them but ultimately they will choose for themselves after weighing up all options. That could, for players with long, generous contracts, persuade them to thumb their nose bloody-mindedly to all parties - though that might be unwise given Salford's reported plight!
Welcome, Bumper, Bongser has enjoyed your missives to date. Keep 'em comin'.
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| Players will leave, if they don't then Salford folds and their contracts are void.
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| There would have to be something very wrong with UK employment law, if you could make a player move to Hull.
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| There appears to be something very deluded about Salford and their fans. They spent money that was tentatively offered but never received, the electronic advertising hoarding was going to make them rich, and a white knight was going to ride over the hill. Last night the club announced the sale was on, and the fans are still clinging to a deal being brokered before the sale starts in earnest.
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| [quote="Septimius Severus":2a2dqa85]There would have to be something very wrong with UK employment law, if you could make a player move to Hull.[/quote:2a2dqa85]
both your points are applicable.i was only commenting on what i had seen in print prior to the vote maybe we do not have all the facts
does the vote point players in certain directions.i note wakies ex owner was one of a contingent who went to look into salford in what capacity is unknown.wakey have now let a player go back to oz
woud be plenty of snowy knihts in salford perhaps they could open more pizza shops and barbers to be major investors
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Michael Carter former CEO was appointed as an independent consultant, brought into Salford by the RFL to investigate the current financial situation. He was well known for running Wakefield on a shoestring and was considered by many (except for Salford fans) to be a good man for the job. The announcement by Salford Red Devils yesterday shows things to be in a worse situation than anticipated from only a few weeks ago.
Rumours suggested that last years salary spend was £1.7M leading Salford fans to boast of the clubs financial acumen, able to run a top 4 team on the lowest budget. This is now shown to be total bs, and that after spending for the 2025 season, Esan Marsters, Chris Hill, et al, they are now at £2M and need to remove £800K, which is now £100K more than pre Christmas forecast.
Anybody feeling sorry for Salford Red Devils should listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez7KhbzU_GQ which allows an insiders view of how the club has been run for the last 5 years and the business model they have used. I am starting to feel sorry for the fans, who have been sold an absolute kipper.
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Michael Carter former CEO was appointed as an independent consultant, brought into Salford by the RFL to investigate the current financial situation. He was well known for running Wakefield on a shoestring and was considered by many (except for Salford fans) to be a good man for the job. The announcement by Salford Red Devils yesterday shows things to be in a worse situation than anticipated from only a few weeks ago.
Rumours suggested that last years salary spend was £1.7M leading Salford fans to boast of the clubs financial acumen, able to run a top 4 team on the lowest budget. This is now shown to be total bs, and that after spending for the 2025 season, Esan Marsters, Chris Hill, et al, they are now at £2M and need to remove £800K, which is now £100K more than pre Christmas forecast.
Anybody feeling sorry for Salford Red Devils should listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez7KhbzU_GQ which allows an insiders view of how the club has been run for the last 5 years and the business model they have used. I am starting to feel sorry for the fans, who have been sold an absolute kipper.
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| Sneyd & Shorrocks???
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| [quote="Cokey":2bv9v8u1]Sneyd & Shorrocks???[/quote:2bv9v8u1]
Yes. Not sure why we didn't go for Shorrocks when he left Wigan.
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International Star | 21932 | No Team Selected |
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Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
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| [quote="Septimius Severus":1tnq55hg]Yes. Not sure why we didn't go for Shorrocks when he left Wigan.[/quote:1tnq55hg]
Maybe Salford offered more, hence their situation now.
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