Noticed a few debates on VT about this and wondered if the RFL is now in a position to broker a deal with SKY and (more importantly) the clubs that 2 leagues of SL are a better option that what we have got.

Looking at it from a outside point of view I don't think increasing the Top league is doing anything for the sport, you will always get one sided scores but there are clubs in the top tier that are not really very good and I think in some cases we could actually be damaging the long term prospects.

I look at investors in low league football and notice RL doesn't have the attraction that (for instance) you could get by buying a low league football club, RL has a series of bizarre rules that mean your off field events mean more than on field but even then its very 'wooly' as to what is required.

I look at Quins and Crusaders and feel its not benefitting either, surely a chance of winning a SL2 as bigger fish with a promotion will attract more fans in rather than a occasional win v another SL whipping boy , let them build up a loyal support adverse at seeing good & bad but in a league thats a good one.

I look at Toulouse in the Championship, I don't think they will be around in our leagues much longer (645 fans on last night), the attraction for their fans (and them to us) has gone.
Its a expensive experiment, and if it was to get the club ready for SL on & off the field then its failing as they are in a worse place now than when they came in looking at from the outside.

I look at the Championship clubs and how they are slowly losing support despite being in a fantastic league, the dreams are gone and the support is going with them - and it isn't going to other RL clubs, other lesure activities are the winner here along with other sports, we need a P&R and a chance for good clubs to progress (and poor ones to be given a breather and a chance to regroup).

I look at expansion, South Wales , Skolars - what realistic chance have they got in a league that doesn't excite converted RL fans and if we do propel them into the current SL on a expansion ticket does anyone expect them to be anything other than Quins and Celtic MK2.

I look at the Widnes / Wakefield situation, Widnes will need a new squad and a huge amount of money to just compete to Wakefields standard in SL, Wakefield will need reassurances and a parachute payment to just survive 2 seasons in the Championship such will be the fall out IMO - Surely if Widnes had been in SL2 and won promotion (with Wakefield relegated) the gaps wouldn't be so huge in both cases.

I look at the playing side, we are now bringing players through for SL (in dual contracts, some of these are doing well), surely if we had SL2 we could have a better intense league for these players.
It proves the playing pool is there if we look /work at it - how many good raw youngsters are at Leigh, Batley , Fev etc , throw in Toulouse in that equation and the duals and I think we have plenty of players who with 1 - 2 years experience in SL2 would be bursting a gut to represent England at Junior and senior level, put them in SL1 (or the current SL) and they will be bit /end of season game players or dualed out here there and everywhere.
I also want to see quality Foreign players in the top league, not average Aussies here because they are cheaper than younsters in this country or that its cheaper to sign them than having a proper youth set up.

There are various ways people want to see it done.
Personally a real[i Super [/iLeague top 8 with week in week out intensisty (something our d gooAussie coaches tell us we don't have in British RL) with a SL second tier of 14 of one up one down based on results - all clubs equal, all have minimum ground standards at the start of the league(no false promises) would suit me but I'm sure there are other ways of doing it.

Look at what we have got in Championship 2 and in the Conferances / Amateur leagues, could we get a decent semi pro league set up that gives you fixtures you don't know the result of before its played, can we get TV deal , can we help and assist these clubs and can we attract support and investment with a clear pathway to SL2 & SL1 (Aim for SL3 - Set sights high).

I actually do believe the RFL would prefer 2 fully proffesional leagues than what we have now, I don't believe there is a agenda at Red Hall but I do believe they are losing sight of what gets fans coming to watch RL and are in danger of missing the boat in expanding the game properly across all areas to everyones satisfaction.
The good part of managment is encouraging people to buy into your ideas and convince them its correct and the best way forward for everyone - Mr Lewis and Mr Wood IMO need to at least look at this 2 top divisions that is gathering momentum, I personally think in 3 years the opportunity will be gone as harsh financial realities hit clubs in & out of SL.

A good post and alot of thought has gone into it.
I only see one huge obstacle to a SL2, there isn't the money to have that many full time professional players.

Good post.

Unfortunately common sense and the RFL don't go together.

The lack of funding was also my first thought, but would the current SL clubs vote themselves a reduction in the sky income? I think not and we all know they (perhaps rightly so depending on peoples own point of view) only look after number one.

A 4 team reduction in SL1 creates £4.8m for SL2 clubs, find another £2.2m and £700k from the deal would fund a SL2.

Fantastic post. Widnes getting promoted out of the system above would be 100 times stronger than what they are today.

Good suggestion but it will never happen.

Excellent post Jenky - pity it will never happen.

It should happen but it wont.

10 teams in SL one ten in SL 2

SL 1
Wigan
Leeds
Saints
Hudds
Bradford
Catalans
HULL FC
Hull Kr
Wire
Cas

SL2

Wakey
Harlequins
Crusaders
Salford
Leigh
Widnes
Halifax
Barrow
Fev
Sheffield


Promotion and relegation one up and one down including all the teams in this

What would you do about the tier below these two? Would clubs like Skolars and Swinton not just die? And if for example a team is started by a rich consortium in Coventry and they get good crowds, win tournaments and are pushing for a place. Would there be P & R between these divisions?

I agree with the concept, I just thought i'd raise a point.

Quins and Cats must be in SL1 to start otherwise the expansion experiment will be seen to have failed.
Add Toulouse in place of Sheffield (2nd French needed for Intl game)
Access to SL2 would be by franchise application every 3 years - at present no team not in the 20 is anywhere near. The objective must be to get SL1 and 2 to 24 clubs inside 10 years

Fair shout that Maurice, i'd feel bad for Sheffield though. They get crowds of 1500+.

Would a winning team not be better for Quins and Crusaders? I'd put them in SL2 so their fans don't have to watch them keep getting battered.

SL2 sounds like a plan.

I have always liked the idea of the top 4 in the championship playing the bottom 4 of SL.
The results count to play off positions and to RnR criteria.
Woudl be much more intersting if the Champ was ful time to get the standard high enough to comete against lower SL teams.

Barrow would need a serious ground upgrade to be contenders.

Not to be in a SL2 they wouldn't,all they'll need is floodlights.

Great post, lots of thought gone into it.

I see. We're expecting much lower standards in SL2 then.

I AGREE A GREAT IDEA IN PRINCIPAL.

BUT HOW WOULD YOU DECIDE WHO LEAVES SL1 AND DROPS DOWN FAIRLY.

I SEE FROM DJ'S POST HES DROPPED WIDNES, SALFORD AND WELCHIES. WHAT IF WIDNES TAKE EVERYONE BY SUPPRISE AND DO WELL IN SL, THE WELCHIES CROWDS ARE GROWING, AND SALFORD ARE MORE THAN CAPABLE TO CHALLENGE 'BIG' SL TEAMS, HELL THEY BATTERED BRADFORD ON TV A FEW WEEKS AGO.

IM NOT SAYIN YOUR WRONG, JUST HOW WOULD THEY DECIDE?!

THE RFL HAVE WRECKED RL WITH ALL THIS, AND UNTIL THERE IS A MASSIVE SHAKE UP WITH SPONSORSHIP/TV MONEY IT ISNT GOING TO CHANGE.

You can still be a professional club playing out of a stadium that is not fit for SL1.

From a stadium point of view there would have to be lower standards.

Their are clubs in SL who have had millions thrown at them over the years and they are still playing out of stadiums which the RFL say are not fit for purpose.How are clubs down here on a third of the money suppose to improve there stadiums?.

Surely the idea of a SL2 is to help to produce more professional clubs and more high quality british players.

If a club like barrow win the right to be promoted but fail to meet the off field criteria then they will remain in SL2 until they meet them

Not that low.

Out of the clubs you mentioned, Barrow's ground is by far the worst.

The idea of franchising is to improve standards. Otherwise, what's the point ?

Its suppose to improve standards on the field as well as off it.

I suspect in the next ten years there will be clubs knocking on the door of a SL2 that currently dont exist in the pro game at the moment,if thats the case then clubs like barrow know they need to improve there stadium or they will be out.In effect what you will be doing is giving them extra money and the same breathing space as those clubs that have been lucky enough to be in SL for the best part of 16 years.

Some interesting views on this www.rlshop.co.uk/2-tier-super-league

Some interesting views on this www.rlshop.co.uk/2-tier-super-league

The questions begs though 'are the current SL clubs bothered about improving standards on or off the field' for without some 'punishment' for not meeting those conditions then is it not irrelevant?

But then I suppose it depends whether SLE gets rid of any of their member clubs in July.

Key point on the blog is "Funding from Sky would have to be increased".

What's in it for Sky ?



Great debate - but I can't see why Sky would want to finance anything but the cream. Last figures I heard for the Championship were around 400,000 viewers - I stand to be updated on this point but it's not exactly a dish-seller.

I thought that was the viewing figure for SL and the champ was about 60 thou and growing?.