Hmmm, somehow I think the ideal player to have on board to counter Mikey Mac is Gareth Hock!

That's a good call.... We are, at present, very soft and easily bullied, and desperately need an enforcer. The one major problem with Hock is that his reputation is so high-profile that refs would be watching out for him to do some 'enforcing' and any meetings with the RFL disciplinary committee would result in exaggerated punishments.

I'd take Hock, on a 1 year deal, in a heartbeat at present.... With Westwood a waning power with the pressure of carrying the pack, Grix constantly picking up injuries, Waterhouse on his way home and Currie failing to live up to his promise, we are pretty desperate for a back rower with a bit of ability and a bit of mongrel about them.

Hey back on my corner.

Hock could well be a good signing; they certainly don't come any tougher or more feared! Like you say though he would definitely be a 'marked man' so to speak and any indiscretions would be jumped on. I watched Thursday's game earlier and, despite the vitriol being thrown around, the McIlorum incidents were nothing you don't see in practically every game or rugby league. The 'shoulder charge' was in fact a check tackle that was a little late. Had Laithwaite not been injured I doubt it would have merited so much as a mention. The 'cannonball tackle' was actually a tackle to the back of the legs and perfectly legal. However, to hear some people speak, it was the work of the devil himself and I wouldn't be surprised to see the disciplinary follow the same line as they have in the past with other players whose reputations precede them! lol. You'd get the same with Hock without question. On the other hand, he'd certainly add some aggression and mongrel when he WAS on the field!

Bit harsh on Currie, I think he's progressing well however he isn't an enforcer in the mould of Benny or Hock.

Hock isn't an enforcer, he's a dirty undisciplined liability who, when actually available for selection, would lose us more games than he won for us, through conceding penalties, going looking for opposition players and sin-binnings.

Despite his reputation as a dirty player, Les Boyd didn't miss many Wires games through suspension. He let the opposition know who was in charge, established the platform, never took a backward step but knew his responsibilites as a leader. He was also a far better player than Hock will ever be.

What we need is for the RFL to crack down on situations that are causing players serious injury. Whether it is technique, tactics or something more sinister, certain clubs, whose proud history deserves better, are getting a deserved reputation for cheap shots and taking players out of the game.

The answer isn't for every team to descend to that level, it is for the RFL to start dishing out some [iserious[/i punishments.

Hock certainly quietened up Westwood when he last faced him v Wigan.

Perhaps, but would you want Ben Evans, James Laithwaite, Ben Currie etc. training alongside and influenced by aforementioned evolution-dodger? We might as well send them for a seasons-long loan with Strangeways Prison XIII.

lol, not particularly but Hock is a great player.
Moran was after him big time when he was 20.

Completely agree with this, how the players go out to intentionally injure fellow professionals is beyond comprehension!

In the words of Ian Paisley Never Never Never. I said fifty per cent temper fifty per cent mental not 100 per cent mental.
Hock is an unpredictable liability both inside and outside the club. I don't think contracts and clauses mean anything to him.
Fans have the right to pillory and mock the referee but as far as players are concerned, the authority and physical integrity of the ref should be sacrosanct. Any departure from this principle and we are staring into the abyss.
Over the years I have watched a myriad of real hard men dishing out and taking some terrible punishment but they have all had the utmost respect for the ref. This clown has disrespected that hallowed convention on two occasions. Personally I would have banned him sine die but he would probably go to a tribunal and plead that he was dropped on his head at birth or some other laughable reason and get reinstated.

I assume by "certain clubs" you're referring to Warrington.

Ben Westwood's punch in first couple of minutes of GF, or Paul Wood's throwing punches at Pettyborne. You're right, if the refs / RFL didn't bottle the first bad incidents in these type of games, perhaps frustrations wouldn't boil over in other players on the pitch.

Our stand off plays the GF with one eye shut, but Wigan only won because of their “poophouse tactics”. You couldn’t make it up. Oh hang, you all just did.

Were Westwood/ Wood instructed to give a bit of biff out by Saint Tony Smith? No of course they weren’t, neither are we, but as some suggest, if you want to mix it with us – Wood started it all, then it’s fair game if you ask me.

I don’t agree with McIllorum’s dirty play, yes he is dirty and I can admit that, but the Wood incident turned what was a great game into a bit of niggle and then the red mist descended on to McIllorum who then became a law unto himself.

McIllorum had nothing to do with the Wood incident and his dirty tactics were not on Wood but an innocent party in Laithwaite and Waterhouse, deliberately trying to injure fellow professionals is completely different to a bit of biff in the middle of the park between two players!

Mickey Mack is just as much a liability as Hock . Personally i would prefer us to extend Waterhouse's contract ....the bloke has done nothing wrong but gets criticised week in week out.

I agree with every word you say but history teaches us that the RFL has consistently failed for decades and decades to properly address the issue. Indeed I would say that there is a substantial proportion of people both within the governance of the game and among the fans who see 'The Biff' as an essential part of the game, to be controlled not eradicated. There seems to be a dichotomy between the rules and accepted practice which psychopaths and their coaches have capitalised on.
Faced with this situation what do you do?

The RFL cannot see how the depletion of squads through serious & lengthy injuries negatively affects the product on the field . The RFL are trying to market an entertainment product & teams need to be at their best to provide that & ,due to financial constraints & other influences, back up squads don't have the quality they used to have. The RFL are shooting themselves in the foot by not protecting the players by making sure refereeing is up to scratch.

Nowt wrong with a bit of biff.
Perhaps we should adopt something from ice hockey.
They get 20 seconds to dish it out.
Lol, make them ware big foam hands too!
Then they get split up and each spend 10 mins for cooling off! No disciplinary.
Now I await the backlash from the purists!

The thing is we have it in us to dish it out a bit. Remember the play off game against Leeds when briers threw a punch at Ablett. That revved up our pack and the intensity lifted. We tried similar against Wigan but we could not quite match their intensity. We were not far off though. When we are in those situations we do miss Grix, Westwood and Harrison. I am sure that Currie England and laithwaite will not be intimidated in the future but maybe it was just a bit too soon, they will learn from that though.

Spot on!

It's the dirty tricks that need sorting out, not the dust-ups (there aren't enough dust-ups).

Have a word with yourself! I think you need to look at both incidents again. I can't seriously believe you think either incident was even noteworthy except in a ''this is a player we hate so lets pretend they were way worse than they actually were'' kind of way. Someone mentioned the Westwood shot on Blake Green earlier. That was far more an attempt to injure a fellow professional. Similarly Woody didn't throw several shots at a man not defending himself in order to 'not injure him'. If you want to aim vitriol in this way at least be prepared to aim it at your own players indiscretions too. That way we might actually give some credence to your points. McIlorum is certainly no saint (pun intended! lol) and on occasion has been worthy of the criticism he received. These incidents, though, were no more or less than happen in virtually every game. In fact a far worse one than the late challenge happened the following night in the Saints?Hudds match. The tackle on Waterhouse didn't even warrant a penalty! Get a grip man!

The problem is how do you define "a bit of Biff'. RL is highly charged collision sport in which emotions are bound to run high and tempers flare resulting in fisticuffs and brawls. This excites the visceral trait in us all but there some who enjoy inflicting pain and injury who intentionally set out to maim and disable and there are all sorts of situations in between. This situation is the psycho's heaven and leads to different penalties for what seems the same offence leading to accusations of bias by the authorities.
Brawls and big hits are part of the game but things like three men tackles where the third man comes in hard and late to hit a vulnerable part of the body and other similar tactics, all of which seem to be a part of McIlorum's repertoire, should be heavily punished.

Wood should of been sent off but the ref bottled it, I am not mentioning the Westwood one because it has no bearing on Thursdays antics from the thug! A bit of biff from Wood and Pettybourne is hardly the same as trying to damage someones knees and charging at a player who was not ready for it!

Where have I advocated taking them out of the game? RL is a hard mans game and we pay to watch hard men go toe to toe with each other and understand that, from time to time, they will go beyond the pail. That is why I was saying, at the present moment, we need a Morley or a Boyd to put some steel in the pack. I do not advocate though the type of physical play that is deliberately designed to injure or disable.

spot on..Woody should have gone...but it wasn't a cowardly attack whilst the player was involved in a tackle. Mick Mac is the worst kind of cheap shot merchant...somebodies career will be finished one of these days by the cannon ball tactic. It needs to be addressed.

is it me or isn't there anything going on in the Wigan board as seems a hell of a lot of visitors on here recently. Correct me if I am wrong but in reference to your suggestion that the wood punching incident is what lead to mcillorum swing the red mist. My view is that the poop house tackles on Waterhouse and cheap shot on Higham was before the wood incident.
Also I firmly believe that wane does send out his team with the instructions to play dirty.