To be fair I think some of that flair still exists. I was really impressed with Wigan last year with Field and French looking like they were playing touch rugby at times. I haven't seen as many Wigan games this year but the ones I have seen there has been a few times I have seen plays that I have been impressed with.

When a team is full of confidence that is when those plays happen. I will never forget Briers kicking cross field to Riley (I think it was Riley) in his own half in a challenge cup final. That was a team that had confidence in their ability to defend and in a team that looked like they enjoyed defending. If the play didn't come off then so be it.

We are miles away from that so maybe it looks like the rest of the league is the same but I am not sure it is. I reckon youngsters that are fans of Wigan and Catalan fans might have a similar view to the one had a naughton park.
And to add. As life wears you down you will never have the wide eyes innocent view of the world again. When I was growing up I only remember the good things like the odd Phil Blake try with only one boot but I forget the countless god awful matches at wilderspool on a Sunday afternoon when the most exciting thing was watching a train pull up in the corner so the train driver could watch the match.

Well it isn't yardage, holding down in the tackle, percentage plays for sure. Mind you I hear the home attendance is up 25% this year so maybe they do.

We have suddenly gone from "our weakest position" to why is rugby not as exciting. Well ... for me it is all about defences ... they are so much better. All full time now (for years). I reckon even our most creative players from the past would have found it hard to find space.
In all other sports (that can be measured without emotion) skills, pace, strength have improved.
Sad but ... our minds are playing tricks.
The Alex Murphy team would have to really adjust their game to play today ... mind you make 'em all full time & give them 6 months ... they might cope OK.

There's no 10 meters, there's an eternity of holding down in every tackle, our games now gone so mind numbingly slow and boring. I am enjoying NRL games more and more with each passing season compared with SL

Yep ... unless we get to grip with this, defences will hold sway. It is not just holding down as there is every trick in the book to slow down the player in possession playing the ball.

Noticed Saints leave a man in the ruck very often which makes for a messy ptb for attacking team, even Catalan were doing it in the semis

According to the Saddest one winger may well be our weakest spot. If anyone thinks this bloke is anything other than a one eyed snake this is his view on Thewlis (and his view of our view!)
“That was a bizarre award and shows how weak the competition is. A lot of Warrington fans don't like him. He's error prone, returns the ball really poorly and horrific defensively. There's potential there, but if he's the best young player in Super League, it's a worry.”

Sad Man speaks with forked tongue.

Must think we can’t see Redvee, comes on here all smiles with his objective views but spews crap back on their own board.

Lesad curry. A troll with many faces.

Which Warrington fans don't rate Thewlis?

Horrific defensively? I’ll say it again he’s an idiot.

I don't know why we give him so much attention. Clearly just a troll.

That "WarrrigntonWolve69" fellow. You know, the one who spends his time mostly trolling Wigan fans and talking about how great Saints are. Strange thing for a Warrington fan, but the user name never lies. I think.

Not seen him around in a long time, as he run out of e-mail accounts to keep making names on here.

Try Rob Riches

Yes but are defences today significantly better than 15-20 years ago? There was definitely a step change in the first 10 years of Super League (a good barometer was Iestyn Harris before and after his spell in union - he found it much harder to ghost through defences second time around). But I don't know that there has been a big step forward since then. The game was a fantastic spectacle in the mid 2000s with some superb teams.

You only have to watch some classic games with Bradford, Saints and Wigan from that period to realise how far our game has fallen.

It comes to something when England vs Fiji offered a little more excitement and creative off the cuff play than the Grand Final.

Well from Fiji anyway

That was just england v Fiji, ireland v new Zealand and France v South Africa absolutely smashed the grand final out of the park as far as a viewing spectacle goes. There is better ball handling and a faster more exciting spectacle in union these days, even the club game can be better on occasion.

I've heard quite a lot of the talk in talksport and the likes about the grand final being one for the purists (it wasn't), which is a kind way of saying it was dull as dishwater. The sport won't attract new sponsors and fans unless the powers that be make the game quicker and more exciting.

It seems to me easy to fix. Just police the tackle and play the ball tighter with sin bin and penalty for repeat offence of holding down and slowing the ruck. Tackle and off the player when the ref says held. If you don't - penalty. This would give the attacking side more reward for running hard and create opportunities of less than perfectly aligned defences for the flair players to exploit. Oh and whilst we are at it - enforce the 10 meters at the play the ball. Not 9 or 8.5 by the time the ball is played.

Its a good point, I think RL is in danger of becoming too much of a slug fest, which isn't going to attract the neutral supporter - it's an entertainment business, lets play to a set of rules that promotes that. Six again was supposed to help that, if anything it has made it worse.

Totally agree, when the referee calls move, if every tackling player doesn't move straight away then a penalty is called. A team mate being in the way by lying on top isn't an excuse. Hands on the opposition player trying to play the ball is penalised, stepping off the mark is penalised. Players and clubs would soon get the message, apart from saints who would just think everyone has it in for them because the officials are actually penalising their players infringements.

Six again has been a failure as it is exploited and gamed early in the tackle count to buy defences more time, it's a tactic. It also has diminished the impact of the the offense of purposefully slowing the ruck. Before the six again rule the infringing team were penalised with a kick to touch (-30 yards) AND six more tackles to defend or a penalty goal attempt.

All the mithering at the play the ball, hands in on the ball, accidentally getting legs and arms caught, taking 2-3 seconds after held is called is all BS and ruining the game. It's slow, unattractive and dull. As soon as the player surrenders the defensive players need to clear out. If you want 3 in the tackle then they had better be quick getting out of the way or it's a penalty. This will hopefully end the spectacle of attacking players throwing their arms in the air in feigned exasperation. It's pantomime crap, as is feigning injury.

And to think we 'upgraded' on this bloke with Dudson https://twitter.com/England_RL/status/1 ... gr%5Etweet

And to think we 'upgraded' on this bloke with Dudson https://twitter.com/England_RL/status/1 ... gr%5Etweet