THIS. I’m not having that we’re smartly pick and choosing games. If that’s the case they want flogging as you say. You can’t work like that and hope to win anything. I’m keen to see what Saturday brings in many respects.

You say that as though Holbrook isn’t the reason why we should win the treble. If we winthe treble then he’ll go down as one of the great Super League coaches. To take a club that was struggling badly to where it is now, with largely the same players, is outstanding. The impact he’s had on individual players has been remarkable, something that can’t be said of Price. The likes of Thompson, Lomax and Knowles are now up there as the best in the league in their positions when they were nowhere near before.

Meanwhile, Steve Price has been backed with expensive signings but most of them have been flops and despite the signing of Austin you’re at the same level as last season. There’s a reason why NRL clubs are after Holbrook and none are after Price. One’s a top coach the other is a poor one.

It isn’t that good because of Steve Price.

Holbrook has done well with Saints but has also been lucky with his time here coinciding with a collapse in the quality of Leeds and Wigan.

Your whole assessment of Holbrook could look very different in 80 minutes of rugby if for instance Saints lose in a Grand Final or final eliminator to Warrington. I know that seems unlikely but anything can happen in a one-off game and Saints have previous in imploding in big games, back from the days of Daniel Anderson.

I wonder what the verdict on Holbrook on redvee would be in those circumstances?

Totally Agree

Our Youth are nowhere to be seen, only if he has an injury and throws them in for one game then drops them again, look at beginning of year, Livett got 2 tries, top tackler and he still dropped him for King, same with J Johnson and now with P Moran. Absolute disgrace how our youth are treated behind the scenes, they should be ashamed of what is happening. They don't even get told why they have been dropped, its just a case of, right I have utilised you, I don't need you now. Price isn't interested in the youth and shown that many times. The calling back of Livett and Johnson has been utter shambles towards the club and to an X coach. I would imagine that if we ever need players to get game time again, other clubs will think twice now after his actions.

There isn't a treble.

Serious question, Will Holbrook go down as a legend if he leaves before the season finishes and you win nothing? Or win one trophy and are beaten finalists? Or win nothing despite dominating this season?

I'm interested what you guys are thinking at the minute because more than any other team in recent history you should be confident of a clean sweep this season. Far and away the best team, everyone else is inconsistent at best and generally poor.

Saints could do the treble, LLS, CC and GF.

Can't see us (Hull) winning on Saturday, we've either lost or struggled in our last matches siince Catalans.

Just hope it is a decent game.

Funny cos I can't see us winning..so who ever wins loses in a way cos a thrashing is awaiting at Wembley and the loser wins cos they get a week off to freshen up some bodies..

I would love either of the two teams to face Halifax and get a battering, can you imagine the apperplext on the BBC!

I can only see a double there.

He will only go down as one of the great superleague coaches in your eyes, should Saints win the treble. As it stands, you or I could coach them to it, it's the worst standard SL by a country mile, as you've kept saying so yourself. Therefore, if you don't win the GF and Challenge Cup double, Holbrook is an abject failure.

Saints did the double last season, they lost both semi-finals.

None so blind as them as refuse to see.

League Leaders - trophy
Challenge Cup - trophy
Grand Final - trophy

that is 3, a treble. ThNlk the stars ypu don't work as a darts commentator.

Treble Twenty
Treble Twenty
Treble Twenty

that is "60" only hit the twenty three times.....

Sorry mate, the LLS counts as nothing. We were told that constantly whenever we've won it.

Ratchford, Brown and Atkins injured; King playing at centre and is not a natural centre for me; Patton isn’t good enough and just filling a gap until Widdop comes; Currie still not back to his best; too much expected of Hill and Cooper, neither are particularly brilliant anymore and their interchanges/replacements aren’t good enough; Burrell not intergrated into the squad; a lot of deadwood in the squad: Westwood Tasi Akouala Murdoch-Masila JClark; not enough good young players coming through who can freshen the team week-to-week when others are rested/injured...

It’s most certainly a treble!

Spot on!

But you said "We have many problems but that’s to be expected. We have many many areas we need to improve and that’s not just the coach, the players also need to pull their fingers out."

A lot is down to Price.

Brown was injured before the season kicked off. HB is clearly a problem and Price has not addressed it.
King is selected by Price at centre, and has had his contract extended by Price.
Price keeps selecting Currie.
Interchanges for Hill and Cooper - Sita was an inherited problem, Tasi was a Price signing.
J Clark signed by Price.
Decent young players loaned to Hull KR by Price.

I'm just wondering how many of our problems are of our own making....

I agree with you but again come back to the issue of attributing responsibility for recruitment. I don't think it will be just Price, so I don't think the distinction of who was signed under TS and who was signed under Price is the real comparison.

For me, Price's accountability is for the way he gets the team organised, the style of rugby they play and how effective they are. Last year I was very impressed with Price, so I'm not going to write him off too quickly even if I'm disappointed at the moment. But the issue of recruitment, talent identification and development has been a real problem for a while and there's responsiblity for that somewhere at the club.

I'm also starting to wonder about how well the club as a whole is managed these days. You know like you get Arsenal fans saying you can trace the decline in their club back to the point where David Dein left, I wonder if our watershed moment was when Andy Gatcliffe went. I know he was never seen as a visionary leader but if you look at where the club was when he took over (a disorganised shambles) there was a steady improvement from that point on to making the club a much more professional and effective unit on and off the pitch, and after he left in 2014 it's never felt to me like it is as well run. Karl Fitzpatrick seems like a good guy and when he's been on BBC radio he talks well and has good ideas about the game, but I don't feel like he had the experience to land a big job like this.

Of the first choice 13, how many Price signings get into it?

Goodwin (due to lack of alternative rather than form or class Atkins pushes him close), Charnley, Austin. Is that it?

Mamo, Burrell, Tasi, Sita, BMM, Clark, Davis & Walker are all squad fillers, despite the salaries suggesting otherwise for a few. Other than Davis I can’t see any genuine return for investment this season. Walker and Burrell could be considered projects for longer term. Mamo is no better than Johnson and the kid (Thewlis, I think) based on the single appearance, but I’d bet his salary is more than both put together. The other 3 are playing 10 minutes for 40 meters and 10 tackles a match. And I’ve said it before, but Solomona for a similar time on the field would at least chip in with an assist or create a bit of havoc. Clark, Sita and BMM are just abject disappointments (until BMM is within 3 yards of the line, then he turns from Jane to Tarzan pretty quickly)

Whatever the plan is, we’re approaching 2 years since his appointment, and it’s not showing signs of fruition. He’s using Smith’s players in a boring game plan, yet having spent more money.

I have a chip on my shoulder as I am a self confessed Smith-ite, but if Smith was giving the blank cheque (Austin, BMM, Charnley and Burrell don’t come cheap, nor did Roberts) I wonder if he could have got a better return, or even similar but in a more attractive style. Towards his latter days, his team lacked class and relied on scooting for Clark, Ratchford and Russell to make inroads for territory or breaks, but that could be Smith concluding that he only had to poor options. Brown being brought in last minute and not working out as planned ultimately killed Smith’s season/tenure. He didn’t pick Patton, sticking with Brown and got slated for it, and now fans are counting the days for Brown to come back despite being on one leg for 6 months. It’s a sorry state of affairs but maybe Smith was right.

I hope I’m wrong, and I hope that this is just a period of taking our foot of the gas knowing that Saints are cut adrift in the league, and we are in the playoffs and semis already. But it feels a lot like if we lose on Saturday, our season is spiralling out of control, desperately banking on coming good/getting lucky in September/October

“We have many problems but that’s to be expected.”

Indeed we do and most of them down to ourselves as well.

One of them the fact we’ve not added a half decent prop to take the load of Hill and Cooper. Even dating back to when we had Hill and Sims and when they were off the field, there was a big regression in our performances back then.

The fact that we, as a club, haven’t addressed this issue sufficiently, even after all these years, is bordering on negligent.

As I say, our own doing. But it can be expected, especially from this club of ours.

Nope
Still can only see 2 cups /trophies there

Fare points.

Personally I think our first choice 17 which included Brown was good enough....however the short vision of pack sizeand depth is astounding!