Very poor performance. Riley was dropped last week when I wasn't convinced he was the one to blame. Time to drop Ryan im afraid. If Russell is back then ratch to centre.

I have been saying all along that Riley was being made a scapegoat for Atkins poor positional play. That showed last night with Ormsby. O'Brien outshone Myler who looks a little disinterested in taking on the line the way Burrows et al do. Forwards stood up well last night and much improved on last week. If only the backs had taken advantage.
We could have won that but for our own mistakes throughout the game.

Feel that Atkins needs a spell out of team to work on the basics then hopefully get back to the form he has shown previously.

Atkins never had the basic core skills in the first place.

Atkins is an interesting animal. As has been noted by others, he does appear to be a 'confidence' player and an exciting athlete to watch when in form. But he has not really excelled over the last couple of years and it will be interesting to see his error count from last night. However, TS has stuck with him over that period; he played 27 games for us last year (despite being injured for 7 games), and 32 games in 2012. So whilst I too would like to see him rested, I will not be surprised if he still takes the field against Hull.

Its too easy to slate Atkins - Yes, he is looking totally devoid of form and confidence at the moment, and probably does need dropping, but at least we know somewhere within him there is a decent centre.

However, what about Richie Myler?..... Now into his fifth year at the club, he has had a lot of money invested in him, mostly with the premise that he would take over from Briers as 'team leader' when he finally retired - However, what have we actually got??.... Personally, I think he is no better a player than when he first joined. He has absolutely no organisational skills, his kicking game is rotten. Overall, he is a bog-standard, average half-back, who wouldn't look out of place in London's side.

Myler is the Emperor's New Clothes of the half back world... He needs to buck up or be shipped out pretty sharpish.

We're only two games in to the post Briers/Hodgson/Carvell/Morley era and already a lot of questions are being asked about players that have won Challenge Cups with us and got to Grand Finals....Riley....Atkins....Myler.

I reckon most teams in SL are really all about their core four or five players and the rest of the players in each team is much of a muchness, you could swap them around from club to club without changing the league table a lot. What separates the top teams from the rest is the quality of those core four or give players.

When you take away the core players from a top side like Saints did a few years back, suddenly the rest of the players that looked formidable before, start to look ordinary. But when you do it the other way round, like Leeds did, keeping the core and swapping lots of the others, success gets maintained.

We have lost the bulk of our core (which also included Michael Monaghan who is now not the player he was) and now the other players around them don't look anything like as good, just like Meli, Flannery, Wilkin, Gardner and co didn't look as good once Cunningham, Long and Scully were not around them.

The only way we will get back up to competing for trophies again, and getting the best out of our other players, is if we replace our core with proper quality. If we're hoping for someone within the squad to 'step up' and be the new Briers or Hodgson we might end up just hoping.

I agree with all of that - However, we spent a small fortune on Myler and so would expect him to be a bit better than what he actually is.

The fact is, if Myler had have joined Wigan instead of us, and produced the level of performance for them that he has for us, then I think most of us would be laughing and be quite relieved that we had dodged a bullet.

Thank goodness for that, I was beginning to think it was just me. But he can tackle, don't forget.

The price we paid for Myler is driven by the barren state of English halfbacks for many years now. Because there are so few that are even half decent, they have a lot of market power over clubs and so their agents manage to get them big deals. I remember last season there was that business about Myler going to the NRL but nothing came of it, maybe in the NRL they have more options and weren't going to pay top dollar for Myler.

I still think Myler is a useful weapon and has his strengths but you have a fair point that he hasn't advanced in the way we'd have hoped. He was in the England set up when he was at Salford but he hasn't established himself there which I was hoping he would have done with us.

This is another reason why I'm slow to buy in to the hype of young players coming through till they have really proved themselves. We've had other examples of much hyped young halfbacks like Scott Moore and Matty Smith, or going back further Kevin Brown was supposed to be one of the biggest talents ever to come out of Wigan's youth system. They end up being so-so. Briers, for all that people say "he wasted his talent", he actually was a top line halfback for many years and got more consistent with age, nobody else has done that since: others like Horne, Thorman and Cooke, started brightly then faded away.

For years the argument was that we don't have any halfbacks because all the clubs sign Aussie halfbacks so English lads don't get a chance but those guys above have had lots of chances, and never fully established themselves. I'm beginning to think the problem isn't that there's loads of amazing English halfback talent around that never gets out of the Championship because of too many overseas players, its that there just isn't the talent around and there hasn't been for a while.

When you look at some of the halfbacks who have served us well down the last 20 or so years - Briers, Greg Mackey, Keith Holden etc. none of them were exactly marquee signings, and all represented something of a gamble.

The championship has proven to be a source of SL-quality forwards in recent times, there must be a SL-quality halfback lurking there somewhere as well, just waiting for someone to take a punt.

You probably have a valid point, Danny Brough was a championship half back and as had to work his way up the SL ladder - Now he is the best half back in the comp.

As for Myler, personally, I feel with all the investment and the hype that went with him, the return we have got back from him, on an individual level, as been pretty poor.... For all the sing that accompanied Wigan's signing of Matty Smith, it has to be said that Smith has proved a cannier recruitment for them, than Myler has been for us.

That's a great post, like you said we are only 2 games in so let's see what the core looks like after 10 and maybe we will have a better idea where needs strengthening.

Jon Roper,Mike Wainwright,Richie Barnett,Henry Fafilli,John Clarke,Chris Riley.., Now Myler and Atkins...

Always a scapegoat and always a target to hound out of the club... That's our way isn't it!!

But no one is scapegoating, surely it's appropriate to say someone has had a stinker if they actually have had a stinker.
Ryan just needs a good sports psychologist to sort his confidence out.
Richie needs to start shouting and directing.

Yes, let's just back the players, even when its blindingly obvious that they are under-performing...



I think its only fair that if the club as invested OUR money in players like Myler and Atkins, that questions should be asked if they don't perform upto expectation.

It isn't a case of hounding players, its more a case that players need to realise that they have to perform a lot better than they presently are, if they are to stay in the side.

If what Myler and Atkins are presently doing for the club is the best they can give, then, to put it bluntly, they should be told to find another club.... Personally, I believe Atkins can do better, because we have seen him do it, but as for Myler, in five years, I've yet to be won over.

I'm in two minds over Atkins, without doubt he deserves dropping, it did the world of good for briers, no player should be undroppable.


However, think back to the Matt king incident in 09, we all needed to put our collective arm around him, to bring up his confidence.

Would it not be as good an idea to be supportive for Ryan?

People are directly having a go at him on twitter, one thing I would definitely do if I was him is stay off that for a while.

It's bang out of order .

Atkins in an accident that is happening now.
I'm a fan of the fella. On his day, he's the equal of any British centre, BUT, he's in a real bad run of form. In a footballing similie, his probably going through what Joe Hart was, 5 months ago. So, Pellegrini "rested" him, and played someone else. Hart "got his head together", and was then reinstated to the team. Hart is now, not far from his previous best.
I hope Mr Smith reacts accordingly.

Without a doubt it's pretty obvious his confidence is shot.. He was fantastic In his 1st season, he hasn't become a bad player overnight.. Maybe a bit of crowd support rather than abuse on forums and Twitter wouldn't go amiss..

Forums is fair game anyone has the choice to come on here and form an opinion, direct messages actually at him though, really? Leave that to Smith Poching and Marshall.

Yes, I don't think anyone on here wants to hound either player out of the club but sport is a results-based business, and the players, coaches and clubs are judged on performance and results. It's also a squad game and, if TS continued to pick players that are abundantly out of form, it sends a very bad, destructive and clear message to players competing to get into the match day 17.

None of this is a knee jerk - Atkins hasn't performed for eighteen months and Myler has probably basked in the reflected glow from Briers for so long, he now feels like a rabbit in the headlights.

When I looked in the face of Waterhouse (a player himself some people would happily have chased all the way back to Manchester Airport) on Friday, I saw frustration, anger and annoyance. When I looked at Atkins and Myler I saw incomprehension and fear.

He has become a bad player over the last 12 months... This isn't a one off game is it?

I've been a big fan of his and ive been thinking he will come good... But there is only so long you blindly support someone on the basis of form showed over 2 years ago.

Personally, I feel if any sportsman chooses to go on social media, then they need their heads testing and deserve all the abuse they get, for being so naïve as to believe all interaction will be of a positive nature.

On an individual level, Atkins was probably quite happy receiving positive adulation when things were going swimmingly, now, when he is receiving abuse, he needs to either man up and take it on the chin, or get off there immediately.

I don't think he's commented on the criticism, that's my opinion, interacting with fans is a good thing, why have the odd numpty ruin something most decent people enjoy.