"It clearly was tactical as well because in that first half instead of seeing charge-downs we saw forwards charging at the kicker and sitting them on their backside. Every leeds player who ended up with the ball on the last tackle was feared to death. And if you think a coach won't be including "The first bloke kicking the ball on the 5th, F****** give it him and make sure he doesn't want to get it again." into his pre-match speech then you're a fool."

Total rubbish and completely out of touch with reality of the modern game. Dream on.

Moving on is right.
Minute 1 a hit on arguably the biggest threat for leeds with ball in hand and foot.

Nobody has been condoning, even myself, but I am justifying it.
Like it or not, it was completely effective bar 0-4 for 10 mins which in my eyes was nothing more that collateral.

Not quite sure he is the best player Leeds have got with ball in hand or on foot. I just think that he was the one who made the first kick and "the tone was set". Lest face it he hasn't been getting a game in the halves where generally the best ball handlers and kickers play.

I will turn your attention to Shaun Wayne's half time speech in the WCC. I think it's you who is out of touch. RL will ALWAYS be a tough and simple game.

- Run hard.
- Hit hard.
- Target the play makers.
- Pressure the kickers.

Why else would Westwood be steaming into him at that speed? Wake up. Hill also took two of the kickers out off the ball and easily could've been penalised, Sims also. The game plan was simple. take out their last play options.

Hard to see how we lost so many in a row really. Why didn't we adopt such a straightforward and comprehensive game plan half way through the Catalans game? We'd be top of the league now!

It's a nice attempt at sarcasm but its funny how we did all of what I mentioned last week and won compared to doing none of what I mentioned in previous games and losing.

Whether you agree or not doesn't affect my opinion that one player showing a bit of aggression inspired others to do the same.

I shudder to think what the modern day fan would say had they witnessed Nicolas, Mills, Karalius, Sorensen, Boyd, Skerret, Ward et al

some very strange opinions in here on what went on... Do people honestly think Tony Smith is telling people to go out and do what Westwood did?

Smith will have said "go out there and put some pressure on the kicker early doors, lets put some doubt in their minds"

Benny Westwood, who lets be honest, isnt the sharpest tool in the box and loves a bit of a sly dig, rushed in, knew he was late but simply couldn't help himself.. the brain cell flickered for a minute, then the arm came up and WHAMO... swinging arm into the face of a kicker when the ball has long gone... There is no 'marginal' about it.

YES the hit set the tone for the game and YES it played a big part in us winning... But he should have been sent off and we would be looking at it in a very different light had it been dealt with properly.

I would guess that makes 3 of us.
Bring back the biff!

Yep.

All this harping on about "We don't need this in our game" or "For any youngsters watching, we don't like to see this"

Utter rubbish. I payed money to watch 26 blokes smash into each other and I expect to see blood. First the shoulder charge, then punching becomes a red card.... May as well watch netball if we keep watering the game down.

This is a sport where we build men (and women) into the physiques of body builders, spend most their week in the gym filling them to the brim with testosterone, train them to run into 40mph car crashes, get them revved up to boiling point before a game where they will be faced with situations that require split second decision making and expect them to behave like choir boys and then express utter outrage when something like this happens.

It's ridiculous.

Westwood was every buy what I hoped Bailey would have brought but didn't.
Bish bash bosh.

Despite all the pantomime villenry, Bailey's never committed cheap shots as bad as that and the Blake Green incident. He's also never been as much of penalty machine either as supporters of opposing teams make out either.
Westwood has been a far better player over his career though, obviously

People forget that in 20 years the game has changed we're understanding more about the long term effects of the collisions they are facing and adjusting the game with players welfare in mind

Modern day packs would muller most of the packs from the 80s they're fitter faster stronger they just do it without having to resort to cheap shots.

There have always been cheap shot merchants and there always will be, and yes, today's players are fitter, faster and stronger. Players these days are also robots, rarely straying from coaches dull tactics and formulaic plays. If I was a Stains fan, would I rather watch Harry Pinner play loose forward or LMS. I know who I'd prefer.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of biff, infact, there's nothing wrong with a lot of biff. A good 26 man brawl never did anyone any harm, but there's a fair bit of harm in a 2 second late tackle.

Sadly, since THAT night in Wigan in 2000, two commentators really got their lingerie in a twist, and we've become more and more sanitised, year on year.

WWIII in 1988 is still talked about fondly on here. No one was concussed, the crowded loved it, and such incidents continued to happen for years, with no need for faux indignation

Recalling WWIII, there's quite an infamous incident regarding Goodway being a pooh house. Sadly, one of our number attempted the same "feat" on Friday. Now, there really IS, NO NEED for that in our game. That IS, poohhousedness, and not biff.

I heard two american ice hockey commentators not long back. A brawl started and they both cheered and said 'lets be honest the crowd love a good fight'. Full on brawls we're a great part of the game back in the day....and anyone who didn't enjoy them is lying.

Completely agree. With regards to the "stepping on hand" a la Goodway/Cullen I thought this was very poor from Sims. For all his hardman image I don't think I have ever seen him have a square go at an opponent and throw a punch.

Sims, hardman image really who told you that?

Quote ="Snaggletooth"Sims, hardman image really who told you that?'" I know it was tongue in cheek but he has been referred to in the past as "hardman" or "enforcer". Here for one www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl ... 6a5b3bb73b

Quote ="Snaggletooth"Sims, hardman image really who told you that?'" I know it was tongue in cheek but he has been referred to in the past as "hardman" or "enforcer". Here for one www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl ... 6a5b3bb73b

Wouldn't a fairer comprising be between Pinner and Sculthorpe? Presume Pinner wouldn't be the answer then?

Quote ="Wires71"Completely agree. With regards to the "stepping on hand" a la Goodway/Cullen I thought this was very poor from Sims. For all his hardman image I don't think I have ever seen him have a square go at an opponent and throw a punch.'" www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... r-punch-up

Quote ="Wires71"Completely agree. With regards to the "stepping on hand" a la Goodway/Cullen I thought this was very poor from Sims. For all his hardman image I don't think I have ever seen him have a square go at an opponent and throw a punch.'" www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... r-punch-up

Quote ="Wires71"I know it was tongue in cheek but he has been referred to in the past as "hardman" or "enforcer". Here for one www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl ... 6a5b3bb73b'" If that's the case their not as hard as they would have us all believe

Quote ="Wires71"I know it was tongue in cheek but he has been referred to in the past as "hardman" or "enforcer". Here for one www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl ... 6a5b3bb73b'" If that's the case their not as hard as they would have us all believe

Bloody hell, you been looking at our Union's Hall of Fame?

A veritable list of fine upstanding gentlemen who tackled round the head and punched when required.

Poohousedness. I like that. I think I'll use it in conversation in the future, with an air of disdain hanging in the air and a glass of sweet sherry in hand.

"You, sir, are a cad and a poo house. Begone with all haste, and take your boorish poohousedness with you".

Sims gets some unfair stick on here, never seen him take a backwards step he is always on of the first in if there's a brawl and when he causes some grief he actively looks to take the next ball in where others shy away oh and he has only not played thru suspension has not been out thru injuries once for us so on the hole has given us good value for money and if all the players showed his passion we certainly would not be in the position we are in right now

He is actually a good player and if we had a pack of "biff" they would be forever banned injured or we would burn thru our interchanges too fast one or two enforcer type players are all we need and they don't have to be props !! Some of the most brutal looking hits I've seen are by Harrison Hansen and he's a second rower !!

We've looked weak in the past when hill n sims were rested and to be fair not looked as good when we have started with hill n cooper so that leads me to think maybe sims is not as bad as many would have us believe !!

No doubt Sims enthusiasm and passion and his form over the last two games has seen him arguably play his best rugby. However too little too late?
So far I've been happy with G King and Philbin and they have potential....Cooper and Crosby are on longer contracts, so if a suitable prop comes our way, loosing Sims won't distrupt my sleep.