I’ve got nothing against Ratchford. Good pro, seems to be a likeable man and has served the club well over the years. But the speed and elusiveness has faded away, and with it the threat. He can still catch and pass, but that should be a prerequisite.

It’s a Warrington thing. We often hold on to those who have served us well for too long. We did it with Westwood, accommodated him in a different position because he’d lost the ability to play his proper role.

A bench spot, maybe. Cover across the backline and a bit of 9/13 at a stretch. But he just doesn’t have it in him to be a strike weapon in 2023.

Developed into an excellent goal kicker though, to his credit.

In addition Ratchford was the last full back that I felt confident about when a bomb went up.

60/40 for me

This season centre has been our weakest position..... Next season it could be our strongest... There will certainly be competition and plenty of running power.

That’s MY confident after 51(!) years. For many of those I was petrified when the ball was passed, let alone a bomb!

Yes, but the problem is, you're supposed to kick it from behind the 40 and get it past the 20. I don't care how good his shorter kicks are...

If we're looking at a direct replacement for Mata'utia but with more pace, I think I've found it:

[urlhttps://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/112626-fastest-moving-crustacean-on-land#:~:text=The%20fastest%2Dmoving%20crustaceans%20on,to%204%20m%20per%20second.[/url

The Ghost Crab:



Problem solved.

Aaron Lindop is a big, quick centre to keep am eye on. He is only in his first year U18 and was injured for the first half of the season but has still made quite a mark this year.Top try scorer with 16 atm including a sequence of 3,3,3,1 in his last four games. He played 5 games for the Reserves, 7 for the U18's and one for Lancs. Academy.

A few commas in your post wouldn’t go amiss.

I bet Ellery Hanley could run sideways across the field faster than that crab, whilst handing off anybody who tried to tackle him.

But would his legs make a tasty meal afterwards?

Now the dust has settled just wondered what the thoughts are on Toby King returning?

How will he be received.

Been very vocal about how positive his time at Wigan has been and also had a couple of thinly veiled digs at Fitzpatrick for the way he handled the rifts created by Powell.

I’m sad to see him leave Wigan think we will be worse for not having him, just curious to see the thoughts of the Warrington faithful.

He was out of form in 2022 and threw a hissy fit after an honest appraisal from the coach (allegedly). Was never the same after signing a big money contract. I'm sure there's truth in the Fitzpatrick murmurings, but at the time Fitzpatrick was tasked with getting a coach who would eradicate the comfort culture. Maybe he had to trust Powell's judgement as the old way hadn't worked under Price.

In hindsight, the best thing (for the club anyway) would have been to drop him and explain why (handled by the player welfare manager). However, this is a clean slate and hopefully the Wigan environment has forced him to grow up a bit and readied him for the wrath of Burgess (who I'm certain will be happy to drop any player not giving 100% every week).

Time will tell.

hmm I think that it ill have opened his eyes to how a professional sucessful club is ran. his form automatically changed as soon as he turned to for wigan.

I think most fans will be sceptical about his return and he will be asked to "prove" himself which I dont think he has to do, he is a grand final winner and was instrumental in their succesfull season which is ironic given most people on here were talking about him being average and a mid table centre ?

I have maintained for a long time we are toothless in the centre and I do think its a very important position, the best centres in the league throughout super league history have all ended up as grand final winners we have been lacking in this for an awful ling time king and tai look to be a more strike orientated pair with wrench to cover for them .

ratchford is a hard player to asses as he is competent in many positions but excels in none he has probably been a victim of his own versatility and caused many coaches headaches of where to fit him in. theoretically if we did not have ratchford we could have signed an alternative that the coach wanted and fitted into his plans.

As mentioned there were some off field issues that affected his reputation within the club, moving in to a new environment - especially one like Wigan - It's always easier to 'tow the line'. The issue is the salary he is on which obviously isn't his fault. For the money he should be one of the best strike centres in the competition, he isn't he's solid, dependable and does his job well but he's not going to create something from nothing.

He's a positive person, so doesn't surprise me he's been vocal how much he enjoyed his time at Wigan - he did the same at Warrington for 95% of his career so far and I'd expect that to continue in 2024.

At the end of the day, Powell wanted him gone, probably because of his salary as much as Powell waning to enable change of attitude within the squad. Powell wanted to remodel the squad playing wise, having that kind of salary available by moving King on was probably very tempting for Powell - especially if there were off field issues. He also brought in a better player IMO in Wardle, real shame we couldn't keep hold of him.

Powell is gone, King is back, I'm sure as long he is being seen to be putting in the effort he will be welcomed back.

I still just don't see this "wonder centre". He is not even the best centre at Wigan. He is solid, hard to put down, offloads freely and good at catching cross field kicks. He is not particularly evasive, or fast, and I have never seen him make space from nothing and slip a pass to his winger.

No doubt he had a better season with Wigan in 2023 than he did with us in the season previously where I think he managed 1 or 2 tries in the half season that followed his contract extension before he was ejected. I congratulate him on his GF win but that does not make him an exceptional player. Ryan Bailey, (the oft cited example), has a bucket full of GF wins.

But we will see when he comes back, clean slate.

I’m not sure on this. King has been superb this year, not just in those glossy areas but in carries, meters, offloads, tackle busts… he has contributed to the team really well. Still made double figures for both tries and assists.

In truth, he’s done everything that Ratchford and Matautia didn’t in 2023.

Back in the England squad again too, granted without Farnworth available so might not have made it without that, but Wane (who has an inside view to his year being inside the Wigan system) must like what he has seen.

It was difficult to watch our player in a Wigan kit winning the grand final at the weekend. Even worse that we were paying part of his salary. Sad indictment of the management of the club over the past few years.

Completely agree with this. He has been superb for Wigan.

I’m struggling to understand what people expect from a centre these days.

I think people have this perception that good centres have to make tackle busts every carry like Inglis in his prime, have the pace of Offiah, the offload of Gene Miles and defensive capabilities of Dean Bell.

I genuinely cannot think of many centres in the modern game on either side of the World that have this mystical “strike” ability people seem to crave.

The modern game generally sees the primary creator of tries to the winger as the fullback he generally also provides the strike.

King when used to his strengths is an excellent centre.

Strong carry, great work ethic, good offload and can put his winger away.

This whole create something out of nothing line is almost like people think SL is under 12s rugby.

Defences are generally very well organised. All players rely on space except the very special ones and they tend to be fullbacks.

I’d much rather Wigan retained King than had to recruit Keighran.

Wardle has caught the headlines in the last couple of months but over the course of the year King has been the more effective of the 2 in 2023.

OK I don't agree with the "superb" adjective. If we are going into stats he still misses a lot of tackles 46/362 and I have never been convinced of his defensive reads or positioning. But that's all fine we can disagree. If I could have the choice I would much prefer Wardle.

Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?

Fair enough. Don't forget I am probably jaundiced after watching him sulking for half a season before Powell ejected him. Anyway, hypothetical question, if faced with a choice of losing King or Wardle, which one would you keep?

crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!

Quote ="jonh"Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?'" No. He was in decent form, signed the massive contract under Price in May 2021 then the form fell off a cliff. Then Powell came in and they had a fall out. Quote ="Daryl Powell"I want a certain type of centre and to be fair to Toby, there’s no doubt that he’s got a lot of potential but after he got his contract here last year he kind of stalled'" https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote ="jonh"Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?'" No. He was in decent form, signed the massive contract under Price in May 2021 then the form fell off a cliff. Then Powell came in and they had a fall out. Quote ="Daryl Powell"I want a certain type of centre and to be fair to Toby, there’s no doubt that he’s got a lot of potential but after he got his contract here last year he kind of stalled'" https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote ="The_runaround"crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!'" See the quote from Powell. He was a "professional person". Toby was poor for us after he got his contract, that is undisputed fact. Huddersfield didn't want to keep him either. He is a different player now at Wigan. No doubt due to their standards and professionalism. I am just sceptical of his character and attitude. Let's see what player we get back. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote ="The_runaround"crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!'" See the quote from Powell. He was a "professional person". Toby was poor for us after he got his contract, that is undisputed fact. Huddersfield didn't want to keep him either. He is a different player now at Wigan. No doubt due to their standards and professionalism. I am just sceptical of his character and attitude. Let's see what player we get back. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

If Burgess wants king back then I'm good with it. I always liked Toby King and I think the step out of his comfort zone and year with Wigan will see him return to us a much more mature and better all round player. I'm not sure about Tai, I haven't seen anything of him, but again if Burgess wants him then that will be good enough for me until I've seen enough to form an opinion on him.

I think we will be a lot better in the centres next season, its a very low bar to compare against though.