The thing is no one will go and watch a touch rugby match.
Rugby is fun for speccies & players ... cos the game is tough.
I played school rugby (years ago) with a Centre who used to always seem to be getting a bang on the head. If he gets dementia can he sue the RFU, the school or the PE College he went to or blame his parents for letting him play. He did play rugby league as well.
Hindsight rears it's head once more.

I agree this case, if successful, will be huge hammerblow to the game as we know it, both on the pitch as we view matches and financially to the whole structure of the sport.

However, just as a personal observation, is anyone else now as uncomfortable viewing the opening seconds of the Andrew Johns' Leeds debut from 2005, when Rob Burrow takes a mighty headshot from the kick off, now knowing the medical condition the fellow is now in, as I am?

Not stating that individual moment was the only reason for his condition of course, but Rob was almost renowned for taking head shots like that throughout his career - the accumulation of those tackles must have had some affect and I wonder how closely monitored he was throughout his long career to how much damage he was suffering?

The game has changed from part-time players, training occasionally with weights made from a scaffold pole in two concrete filled paint pots and running a few laps of the pitch, to full time players with nutrition plans and stats based training programmes. Forwards have gone from big plodders to muscle bound athletes, and wingers from wiry racing snakes to powerhouses (no disrespect to those players of the eras that fall outside the stereotype). The magic sponge has been replaced by doctors and full time physios, and player welfare come to the forefront.

We can't change what's happened to past-players, but we can by sympathetic to their needs and ailments, and trust that recent measures (and adaptations forthwith) give us a safe and sustainable sport.

I can see head protection like Hilly used to wear being compulsory soon. As for the payouts, Warren Stevens must be due a 7 figure sum.

Unfortunately 'scrum caps' don't prevent the brain hitting the inside of the skull, which seems to be the issue.

My thoughts exactly Smiffy, but also can't ignore them either. So it's a dodgy situation.

Are Frank Warren or Eddie Hearn on the hook for the same in pro boxing? What about MME?

Pretty sure some forms of CTE were known from boxing in the 50s, and they started looking at it in the early 00s off the back of nfl players.

Will smiths movie came out in 2015 though

Pretty sure it's being mentioned in soccer too regards heading the ball.

It's all tinged with sadness because there's blokes and families out there who have early onset dementia in their 50's.

It's not as though you can argue that you didn't know rugby was a contact sport before embarking on a career though and the RFL can demonstrate in recent years it's making changes and progress on head injuries.

Exactly. Maybe it's just a very sad and unfortunate outcome and nobody is to blame for any failure of duty of care as the link has only been established after the event.

I think one immediate and reasonable change would be to have HIA’s conducted by an independent body. At the minute, club doctors conduct pre-season baseline assessments and the in-match assessments. While I’m not questioning their integrity, they are on the payroll of the organisation who need their “assets” on the pitch.

If the RFL conducted/appointed independent specialist doctors to conduct ALL of the HIA assessments, both pre-season, sporadic review in season and for in game knocks, they could ensure true independence to the tests. Which, if nothing else, would be a mitigation further down the line for future cases.

What about you...?



I agree though. Kneeling over somebody stricken landing bare fist punches. Some sport that.

Sounds made for Ben Flower.....

As for MME, personally I find it a little barbaric, appealing to something quite base in human nature. Like stopping to look at car crashes. I cannot believe repeated punches and kicks to the head has no risk of brain damage so will MME be faced with law suits ?

I guess a difference maybe that RL players are employees but if that was the case the action would be against their former employers. In that case they would have to take action against each club in the hope one sticks but the the burden of proof would be which club failed in it's duty of care.

It's not necessarily the case. Take pro wrestling over 50 wrestlers from a few eras of wrestling unsuccessfully fuked a lawsuit against the WWE. Quiet a few of the former wrestlers have never even been under contract to wwe. But some of them wcw. Which they filed against wwe as they bought wcw in 2001. The wrestlers are classed as independent contractors. But still filed against wwe. This was eventually dismissed by the American courts.

Since you say 'bare fisted' clearly you don't watch mma.

Come on cat, they are hardly boxing gloves are they?

No i don't watch it. I could get it for free if i stand at the top of King Street of a weekend. I don't see the attraction. Until recently i was on Facebook and used to see posts like 'MMA training tonight' Seems everyone in the world is an MMA fighter but me. I'd better stay indoors

Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"Since you say 'bare fisted' clearly you don't watch mma.'" Maybe he was watching this when he formed his opinion. Article states MMA and it looks bare fisted to me. [size=150[iBare fist fighting in Mixed Martial Arts makes history in Cheyenne[/i[/size https://www.wyomingnewsnow.tv/2020/08/1 ... -cheyenne/

Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"Since you say 'bare fisted' clearly you don't watch mma.'" Maybe he was watching this when he formed his opinion. Article states MMA and it looks bare fisted to me. [size=150[iBare fist fighting in Mixed Martial Arts makes history in Cheyenne[/i[/size https://www.wyomingnewsnow.tv/2020/08/1 ... -cheyenne/

Quote ="Wires71"Maybe he was watching this when he formed his opinion. Article states MMA and it looks bare fisted to me. [size=150[iBare fist fighting in Mixed Martial Arts makes history in Cheyenne[/i[/size https://www.wyomingnewsnow.tv/2020/08/1 ... -cheyenne/ '" Ahem.... Mr Cat? I wasn't thinking of this particular match but i am genuinely interested in why you think this is some kind of sport? Just looks like bad drunken street fighting to me and i see people going to 'MMA training' all the time. must be hot on a night out these days. I can only imagine what it's like with all these juiced up 'MMA trained' young lads knocking about. Maybe im generalising too much...... i don't think i am though.

Quote ="Wires71"Maybe he was watching this when he formed his opinion. Article states MMA and it looks bare fisted to me. [size=150[iBare fist fighting in Mixed Martial Arts makes history in Cheyenne[/i[/size https://www.wyomingnewsnow.tv/2020/08/1 ... -cheyenne/ '" Ahem.... Mr Cat? I wasn't thinking of this particular match but i am genuinely interested in why you think this is some kind of sport? Just looks like bad drunken street fighting to me and i see people going to 'MMA training' all the time. must be hot on a night out these days. I can only imagine what it's like with all these juiced up 'MMA trained' young lads knocking about. Maybe im generalising too much...... i don't think i am though.

Well you wouldn't have thought of that as its a small time regional company which is probably the exception that proves the rule.

I hadn't heard of it, after having a look I've not heard of any of the fighters, and the pay scales don't seem to be thst well published suggesting its a couple hundred dollars at best.

The one I did know about it BKFC, which is pretty much just boxing with hand wraps, no ground work.

Re top level mma (ufc/bellator) in most occasions if someone does take a couple of shots like you describe it gets stopped pretty much straight away, if someone takes shots whilst covering up (not actually getting hit) the refs will stop it.

Post matches, all fighters get assessed by an athletic commission, and if showing signs of concussion, or if they get knocked out get suspended from training (never mind fights) for 6 months and sometimes up to a year.

One thing that mma doesn't have, that boxing does is those standing eight counts, a boxer who is clearly concussed, on jelly legs gets up on instinct to keep on fighting (much like rl players used to) instead of the ref calling it.


I cant speak for the people you associate with, but from my experience of mma and bjj training, you dont get too many ppl like that, they either leave very quickly cos their ego can't take being bettered at everything, or they get shown up if they throw their weight around. And I'm not talking about getting beaten up, just wrestled and held down by someone with more experience, its incredibly humbling.

Again there's always going to be the odd exception.

But hey yeah it's pretty terrible, I'd rather watch Sean o'loughlin tackling and then not get suspended cos he's got a 'previous clean record'. That's safe for all involved

It seems MMA is not immune to brain damage arising as consequence of participation. I really don't think the occasional high tackle in RL is anywhere near the impact of these sports where the most lauded method of winning is to incapacitate your opponent through loss of consciousness brought about through head/brain trauma. A sport which celebrates kicks, punches, and elbows to the head. https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/1/13/2 ... ain-trauma

It seems MMA is not immune to brain damage arising as consequence of participation. I really don't think the occasional high tackle in RL is anywhere near the impact of these sports where the most lauded method of winning is to incapacitate your opponent through loss of consciousness brought about through head/brain trauma. A sport which celebrates kicks, punches, and elbows to the head. https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/1/13/2 ... ain-trauma

Quote ="Wires71"It seems MMA is not immune to brain damage arising as consequence of participation. I really don't think the occasional high tackle in RL is anywhere near the impact of these sports where the most lauded method of winning is to incapacitate your opponent through loss of consciousness brought about through head/brain trauma. A sport which celebrates kicks, punches, and elbows to the head. https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/1/13/2 ... ain-trauma'" It's not just high tackle causing the impact infant the majority of the damage will be caused from high impact collisions making the brain basically rock around the skull.

Quote ="Wires71"It seems MMA is not immune to brain damage arising as consequence of participation. I really don't think the occasional high tackle in RL is anywhere near the impact of these sports where the most lauded method of winning is to incapacitate your opponent through loss of consciousness brought about through head/brain trauma. A sport which celebrates kicks, punches, and elbows to the head. https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/1/13/2 ... ain-trauma'" It's not just high tackle causing the impact infant the majority of the damage will be caused from high impact collisions making the brain basically rock around the skull.

Fair enough, I am no expert on these matters. It does seem clear that there is a wide disparity between sporting bodies and their policy on the risks of brain trauma.

High impact collisions are the heart and soul of Rugby League and other contact sports so I don't know where this is going.

Limiting contact training sessions clamping down hard on late or high challenges would be a start to it. It's not about cutting out the impacts altogether but to cut out unnecessary ones.

If you watch a rugby union game they do appear to have almost got rid of high shots ... not totally of course.
League has always been tougher, with far more high tackles. Our game will find it quite a challenge.