Agree with that Walt.

It always surprises me that some players get constant stick, even when they're obviously doing their bit. If a player was lazy and obviously didn't care about the team, then fine give them abuse, but some lads just get endless criticism for no good reason. Riley is a case in point, alright the lad's not Brian Bevan, but he gives his best, works hard and has done some great things for us and deserves his place for it.

Penny was a bit suspect at times but if TS reckons he's good enough, get him in the side and we'll see how he goes. If he's good enough it'll be obvious and if he's not, then we've given the lad a chance and so be it, but we shouldn't pre-judge him before he's had a run out.

Williams has no heart, he gets my support for the 80 minutes he plays, if he plays well i'd say so but i refuse to come on here and blindly praise anyone.

I'll be honest i have seen Williams have one good game, shame it was in a Cas top.

Which muppet am i? <please be Animal, please be Animal>.

Blindly praising players just because they wear our shirt is just as bad as unjustly slagging a player off.
e.g. I've seen Riley have more good games than he's had bad ones likewise Bridge.

I don't believe it was, but I believe the extremes that people go to to negate the blame that was put against him is quite brilliant. He couldn't defend, but people's way around that seems to be to throw a bit of blame in at everybody else, most of whom have proven themselves to be fantastic defenders. It wasn't all Kev's fault, but he couldn't defend and quite a lot of the criticism he received wasn't unfair, he was the worst defender down that side, he was fragile and teams exploited him regularly.

I'm glad he's back, I wanted him to stay and learn more from a coach like Smith first time around but it wasn't meant to be. We're a much better side now and we can hide bad defending much better now. He's clearly a bit of a wild card, but we need somebody to give us that threat from distance. I might actually stand up next time we make a break (if Kev's playing), rather than slightly lean to get a better view of the nearest milf.

I don't think may would disagree.

Interesting half time interview during BBC radio broadcast this afternoon where Jackie Edwards mentioned that a certain Brian Bevan was suspect in defence but as we all know Bev created his own history.

I had you down as more of a Swedish Chef, Yed.

I'm with you on the Williams call.
I too don't rate him. BUT, as long as he's in a Wire jersey, he'll get my support.
True, I may use the odd profanity under my breath when he's knocked on, missed a tackle, hopelessly out of position etc. I do that for player. But what I wont do, is give him 80 minutes of grief, and scream til I'm blue in the face whenever the ball's near him.

To be fair to myself he's the only player that gets on my t*ts, back in the day (cue dogs abuse) Wainwright got on my nerves but at least he had heart

Fans like pace because they want to see exciting rugby league. So Penny has a hardcore fan base like Henare did.

But pace is not the be all and end all weapon that some people think it is. You can be a prolific try scorer without having express pace if you have other things to your game, like Fa'afili with all those balls he won in the air and touched down.

When people say Offiah or Brian Bevan were suspect in defence it's really a ridiculous argument because those guys scored 50 or 60 tries per season so you can get some leeway with weaknesses if you are that good. If you aren't scoring tries at that rate and you're weak in defence then you quickly become a liability, can't get away with that at the top teams.

Penny had a decent try scoring record but out of our recent wingers, Fa'afili, Riley, Joel Monaghan and Hicks all had better scoring ratios than Penny did so that is also part of the problem: he was not as good an attacking weapon as them. If he's going to force his way in to the team this time round, realistically he needs to prove himself as better than Riley, which he didn't do last time. If he is a more rounded player now, and can add his speed to a complete wingers game like Darren Albert or Brett Dallas did then he will be a top class player.

Reasonable post Sally.
I'll give Penny the benefit of the doubt.
Hope it goes well for him.
He must have something otherwise we wouldn't have given him a 1 year contract.

We've had some very good wingers recently - Hicks was my favourite (as athletic as Joel but faster). Fa'afili had the advantage of being outside Gleeson at his best and at times chasing back appeared to be very lazy but I still rated him. Riley often gets a hard time but I think he's stood up well.

Penny is not a young lad anymore so it's last chance saloon time. Hope it goes OK for him.


Edit - thinking about this, it could be a good ploy to include him in the 19, teams look to target a wing (say Rileys on the assumption Penny will play there and then don't play him !

I think a lot of people's issue with Williams, mine included, is his lack of work ethic and body language, which is poor.

Riley doesn't have the same pace, and is sometimes suspect in defence, but he never hides away, shirks or goes MIA. As a fan, you can forgive a player alot if he looks like he's giving his all, acknowledges he has made an error and is determined to rectify it whatever his limitations - Riley gives this impression, Williams does not.

Penny is in the Riley mould in that respect, but still has that explosive pace. TS seems to be suggesting most of the negative aspects of his play have been ironed out, whilst the positives have been retained; if he's right (and he usually is) then we have quite a wildcard player.

I'm with you on that one, Morrisey.
As many (at times) as Riley's faults are, he wont go missing (apart from defending a kick to the corner

sorry). The lad shows commitment, a lot more than some.

As for Penny. Just drop the 30 yard sprints to slap people on the back when they've dropped a bollock, and keep concentrating on your own game. I think that's a problem in Penny's game, he wants to be loved and noticed, hence these daft "pat on the back" runs. Don't worry about everybody else, Kev. Concentrate on yourself.

I really can't be done with all this running over to teammates and slapping them on the back when they've made an error (which can't be doing Bridge's back much good of late). If they've forced an error, yeah high-fives or whatever it is the yooths do these days but come on, not when you've dropped a clanger.

I can't remember what Les Boyd used to do if a colleague knocked on in his own 20, but I don't think congratulations would have been in order.

Don't really have an issue with it to be honest. You often see players beating themselves up over a mistake, sometimes it helps to have a pat on the back to get your confidence back up. I wouldn't do it every play but I think it does more good than harm.

Fa'afili was a poor winger but Gleeson always carried enough respect to draw in the defences and put him in a position where he only had to fall over to score a try!

WHAT ?

with the exception of the first 6 words, that was almost a quote said to me by a former wire coach. Who am I to disagree!

That wasn't by any chance the coach that signed him was it? You really do move in high circles......Gareth Hock, a former Wire coach, what next, Bill Clinton, prince Charles, Phil the Greek?

Kerry Katona

I doesn't matter which coach, any of them would be far wiser than you or I!

I'd be gutted if I had Jimmy Lowes on my pub quiz team.

i had nigel wright a couple of years ago, he wasn't much use, though he did give me a candid view on an ex sL coach.

I really hope it was the same wire coach who played Ben Westwood and Ian Sibbit on the wing.

never seen a guy leap into the air and catch a briers kick Like our Henry. or Did I imagine that ?

Monas hicks and king.

Go back and ask that coach if he agrees with your first 6 words.