Because, despite what the Tories and all their sycophantic media chums would have you believe, it wasn't actually a fight with the Unions, but in reality a fight with the Labour-voting working classes, who dared to stand up for their working rights.

Its ironic that Cameron has based a large amount of his campaign on our 'Broken Society', when it was Thatcher and her battles with the working classes that actually destroyed countless communities, leading to the situation we complain about today, where we seemingly have a society without any bonds between neighbours, which, so it is claimed by Cameron and his ilk, leads to a lack of pride in our society and then causes the problems we now have.

Visit Cornwall and its ghost towns that were once thriving mining communities, or Yorkshire, South Wales, etc, for similar examples of Tory hypocrisy.

Lib-Lab coalition already planned?: www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... s-ed-balls

Lib-Lab coalition already planned?: www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... s-ed-balls

Maggie sought to challenge "working rights" as it was becoming rediculous. Perhaps you would like a return to 1978/79 with 3 day weeks, public sector wage increase demands of 5%, unofficial action, electricity going off during the evening, binmen getting 11% pay rise after letting rubbish pile up for weeks and the dead laying unburied for the same time? That's what Trade Unions do for you, and giving power to the working man.

I see 'broken societies' where there were no mining communities i.e) Warrington for a start. How do you explain that. Still blame it on Maggie after all these years?

If there was another Tory like Thatcher in the offing now they would be on for a huge majority.

Could you point me towards Warrington's broken society please?

I can show you 2nd generation unemployed youths hanging around in Culcheth village setting fires, littering, being abusive, anti-social, drinking underage and fighting. Friday evening I challenged one as I picked up his litter he dropped on the park (designed for children and I was with my 9yo) and he said "i don't respect nuffink man, who gives a init." He effected a sort of rediculous black culture slang then swaggered off smirking. He was damned. I could have cried for him.

Culcheth is considered to be OK. God knows what it's like in worse areas.

Quote ="The Angry Pirate"Could you point me towards Warrington's broken society please?'" Oh, and here, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 176471.stm

Quote ="The Angry Pirate"Could you point me towards Warrington's broken society please?'" Oh, and here, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 176471.stm

Simple thing have helped break down the community spirit.

I'll use Golborne as an example

We used to have the Walking day and Carnival day in which the whole village would be out in the pubs and beer gardens BBQ's everywhere and people enjoying themselves.
On carnival day people would hire a truck and trailer and turn it into a float, there would be 30 floats, about 15 marching bands, dancers, walkers. There would then be a travelling fairground, the whole place was out, it was great.

Now i moved out a number of years ago so correct me if anyone knows better
Walking day (i think) has been cancelled
The last time i went to the carnival it had 5 floats a couple of bands and a few morris dancing troops, a little kiddies fair and The Horns Inn, The Angel, The Manor all knocked down and houses built with The Railway turned into flats and The Red Lion closed down.

The village has turned into a chav area and no longer has that community spirit it had for generations.
No one wants to take the mantle, no one wants to lead the spirit and turn it around. I wouldn't be surprised if H&S legislation is also a community killer with over the top paper work and insurance costs and risk assessments killing community events.

It's almost like the fun has been knocked out of people, people are becoming more and more insular and selfish.
I don't blame Thatcher or anyone else for that matter. No one in Golborne gave two hoots what Thatcher said so i can't see how a community changed because of her.

People need passion, people need inspiration and drive. They need to be taught how to communicate with each other and look out for one another and protect each other.

Do any of these parties offer social change or stimulate it in anyway ?

I'd ban over the top H&S legislation, I'd ban 24 hour news channels, I'd reward community action.

I'll type other stuff when it comes to me but for now peace.

Quote ="Wires71"Oh, and here, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 176471.stm'" So Gerry Newlove's murder is an example of a broken society??....Please forgive me, but I honestly think things like this have gone on for many, many years, despite what Cameron wants us all to believe.

Quote ="Wires71"Oh, and here, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 176471.stm'" So Gerry Newlove's murder is an example of a broken society??....Please forgive me, but I honestly think things like this have gone on for many, many years, despite what Cameron wants us all to believe.

Were Brixton and Toxteth broken societies?

It's a capitalist system. It thrives on division. We are only talking about who is going to run it best, not change it!

No, that was those damn ethnics just waving their spears because they hadn't got their giros on time.....



Quick edit in case people think I've gone all BNP......It is intended sarcasm in a Carol Thatcher type of way....

I agree but what is the alternative ?
Society is manipulated into economic slavery by capitalism and going down the communist route is equally as bad, what exactly is the middle ground ?

Technocracy or a meritocratic govern ship is surely the starting ground though.
Not people wet behind the ears fresh out of Eton or militant bully boy unionists who like asking questions without offering a solution.

The problem is this idea of Mrs Thatcher's era being the glory days when Britain was put to rights is a myth. Even if you take out the emotion of the Thatcher-haters, her record was not as good as some of her supporters like to claim:

She claimed that her no.1 priority was to counter inflation, which was just over 10% when she took over in 1979. It was 10.9% when she resigned in 1990. The years in between there was a big spike in inflation followed by a few years when it was down to 4-6% before going back up in the final years of the decade. Certainly a million miles away from the constant low inflation of the past decade.

Unemployment - when she took over the unemployment rate was about 4%. After three years it was nearly 13%. The average unemployment rate during her time in office was 9.1% even accounting for the fact the Conservative govt kept changing the way in which unemployment was defined. Compare that to the fact that even at the worst of the current recession, it has peaked at about 8%.

She saw two recessions and one boom, the average growth during the Thatcher decade was 1.8% which was a lower rate of growth than we'd had in the 60s or 70s, and lower than the 90s and 2000s. It was also lower than all of our competitor economies at the time.

The social security bill rose by 40% in Thatcher's time, which is the largest increase in social security spending since the welfare state was set up. The culture of welfare-reliance that we are saddled with today started in the Thatcher era. Before she was PM there was never the same extent of large sections of some towns/cities living a life-on-benefits. There was a 60% rise in people claiming income support.

In a lot of ways I admire Mrs Thatcher, she was a genuine politician with no bull or spin behind her words and she had a conviction in what she thought was best for Britain, but in the cold light of day her reign needs to be analysed fairly, she was not a successful PM and she left British society more divided and with deeper social problems than it had before.

(stats above are from books on Thatcher by Peter Riddell and Denis Kavanagh which I used at uni)

If the Tories get in, lots of taxes will be added and the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer also all public building will get scraped e.g. stadium around the country.

Quote ="RED FLAG RISING"If the Tories get in, lots of taxes will be added and the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer also all public building will get scraped e.g. stadium around the country.'" Gap between rich and poor 'at its widest since the war'. Shocking legacy for a Labour Government. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 003694.ece

Quote ="RED FLAG RISING"If the Tories get in, lots of taxes will be added and the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer also all public building will get scraped e.g. stadium around the country.'" Gap between rich and poor 'at its widest since the war'. Shocking legacy for a Labour Government. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 003694.ece

Statistics, schmatistics....

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s8ymcDevil's Advocate[/url

Programme for 71 and Sally....

just wait till friday when normal service will resume regardless of who wins this comp for being two faced..in fact in 12 months time nothing will have changed..dont know what all the fuss is about

Labour asking me to vote lib dem is almost making me want to vote Tory.

I've just seen the cover of today's Times, with possibly the most nauseating image I have seen for quite a while adorning it.

Are the Cameron's campaigning for the country's top political role, or are they auditioning for a modelling contract with M&S??

The sight of Cameron gazing out of the train window, with his wife lay across him, really is stomach turning..... They make the Blair's look publicity shy with their constant courting of the middle class media.

To think that this chancer is set for the role of PM is a very scary thought.....Especially the strong chance that his wife will become the darling of the Daily Mail reading male population....

I find this more nauseating.

she's clearly head over heels in love.

Yes, not particularly pleasant, but at least its genuine.....The Cameron pic looks like the type of thing you'd see advertising Durex.

I imagine Cameron does a very good impression of Troy McClure....

Effects of the recession are kicking in now, only going abroad on holiday twice this year instead of the usual three times. Glad its not the eighties, weekend in Rhyl was the most my parents could afford. Being skint under the conservatives was much more severe than being skint now under labour.

Thats because to a large extent we have been shielded from the effects of the recession so far. The government has intervened in the economy to lessen the impacts of the negative things. When the banks collapsed, the government guaranteed savers' deposits. When lending dried up, the Bank of England slashed interest rates to the lowest ever. When retail was collapsing because nobody was spending, the government cut VAT. Whilst unemployment has gone up and there have been some repossessions, these have not been anything like the scale they were during the recessions under the Conservatives, because the Conservatives didn't intervene in the economy, they just let nature take its course. Considering this global recession was the worst since the 1930s, that would have basically seen the economy collapse. So its a bit churlish that the Tories are now crowing about the size of the debt and blaming the government....the government has done what it needed to do to keep us afloat, and in that sense it's worked.

The danger however is the public has been lulled into a sense that "it wasn't as bad as they said it would be". The reality is that we've 'survived' by the government intervening to stabilise the economy, to do this they needed to spend highly, and they weren't getting as much in from taxation because the economy was shrinking, so the shortfall was made up for by borrowing. Hence the size of the debt now. When the economy is growing again that debt will have to be paid back, so whereas many people enjoyed a period of unparalleled prosperity between 1997 and 2007, if we have a decade of growth to come, the proceeds of that growth are going to be diverted to debt repayment, which will ultimately mean hefty tax rises.

At the moment we can still have a few more weeks of living in denial because we have been sold the dummy that 'efficiency savings' will pay back the debt. They won't....paying a high premium in various taxes will.