Go on I'll bite.

Firstly you suggested open letters were futile, then when reminded Hetherington used them, you moved the argument to suggest that Kirkpatrick write the same letter as Hetherington.



Sadly Kirkpatrick would not be able to write a letter referencing a previous treble winning season and 6 GF wins in said last decade.

Maybe he could write a communication to the fans to acknowledge the situation and to reassure us that a plan is in hand.

Or are you putting forward the idea that open fan communication is a bad idea in it's entirety? That would put you at odds with other well respected administrators such as Draper. They could also use the first page of the match day programme to sell advertising instead of a message to the fans.

The letter may get the message through to those fans for which anything other than carrying Smith on a litter, fanning him and reminiscing about 2009-2012 and putting fingers in ears and going "la la la la la" when we talk about the 5 seasons since would look like high treason.

Quote ="Wires71"If this is true why would Gary Hetherington go to the trouble of writing an open letter in 2016 and earlier this season? Both seem to have been received well. There is not a lot he doesn't know about RL administration and how to lead a successful club. Maybe our club, if it cannot come up with it's own ideas, can emulate it's more successful peers. At least it would show us that the board acknowledge that things are not good enough. 2016 www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-7900365 2017 www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... therington'" If for one minute you take back your Grand Final winning 'trump card' from your argument (if you don't then it's really not an argument that anyone can ever win so seems pointless) then I agree with Sally if we came out with that guff the board would be ridiculed by the fans or at best we'd remain dissatisfied and disgruntled. You say that "both seem to have been received well" do you know this for a fact, perhaps not as you use "seem" in your statement? The only reaction to it I'm aware of are the comments below the 2017 message and despite Leeds' recent Champion status it didn't "seem" to find any favour.

Quote ="Wires71"If this is true why would Gary Hetherington go to the trouble of writing an open letter in 2016 and earlier this season? Both seem to have been received well. There is not a lot he doesn't know about RL administration and how to lead a successful club. Maybe our club, if it cannot come up with it's own ideas, can emulate it's more successful peers. At least it would show us that the board acknowledge that things are not good enough. 2016 www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-7900365 2017 www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... therington'" If for one minute you take back your Grand Final winning 'trump card' from your argument (if you don't then it's really not an argument that anyone can ever win so seems pointless) then I agree with Sally if we came out with that guff the board would be ridiculed by the fans or at best we'd remain dissatisfied and disgruntled. You say that "both seem to have been received well" do you know this for a fact, perhaps not as you use "seem" in your statement? The only reaction to it I'm aware of are the comments below the 2017 message and despite Leeds' recent Champion status it didn't "seem" to find any favour.

There's only ONE course of action.

The sack.

Sadly, win or lose on Saturday, he'll be at Padgate on Monday, tracksuited

and in that case there is only ONE letter/piece of communication that would placate the masses and it wouldn't follow Hetherington's script

Broomhead s latest tweet is as follows.When in adversity always hold your nerve please help us in this difficult time by being loud + proud v the Pies.Apios will get it right.

God, I hate stuff like this.

The Internet is full of dull, unimaginative bumholes, who update their Facebook feed with tosh like this.

Not too different than most of the rubbish sprouted on this forum!!!

Quote ="Uncle Rico"If for one minute you take back your Grand Final winning 'trump card' from your argument (if you don't then it's really not an argument that anyone can ever win so seems pointless) then I agree with Sally if we came out with that guff the board would be ridiculed by the fans or at best we'd remain dissatisfied and disgruntled. You say that "both seem to have been received well" do you know this for a fact, perhaps not as you use "seem" in your statement? The only reaction to it I'm aware of are the comments below the 2017 message and despite Leeds' recent Champion status it didn't "seem" to find any favour.'" Don't know what you mean about trump card - sorry. I never advocated the letter should have the same content as Hetheringtons. That would be stupid. On reception - I can only read into the fact that in 2016 Leeds easily escaped the MPG and in 2017 they sit 3rd in the league and McDermott was happy with the letter. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... er-to-fans. This is what leads me to think it was well received and had a positive effect.

Quote ="Uncle Rico"If for one minute you take back your Grand Final winning 'trump card' from your argument (if you don't then it's really not an argument that anyone can ever win so seems pointless) then I agree with Sally if we came out with that guff the board would be ridiculed by the fans or at best we'd remain dissatisfied and disgruntled. You say that "both seem to have been received well" do you know this for a fact, perhaps not as you use "seem" in your statement? The only reaction to it I'm aware of are the comments below the 2017 message and despite Leeds' recent Champion status it didn't "seem" to find any favour.'" Don't know what you mean about trump card - sorry. I never advocated the letter should have the same content as Hetheringtons. That would be stupid. On reception - I can only read into the fact that in 2016 Leeds easily escaped the MPG and in 2017 they sit 3rd in the league and McDermott was happy with the letter. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... er-to-fans. This is what leads me to think it was well received and had a positive effect.

Club official?

Quote ="Wires71"Don't know what you mean about trump card - sorry. I never advocated the letter should have the same content as Hetheringtons. That would be stupid. On reception - I can only read into the fact that in 2016 Leeds easily escaped the MPG and in 2017 they sit 3rd in the league and McDermott was happy with the letter. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... er-to-fans. This is what leads me to think it was well received and had a positive effect.'" Your "trump card" was in response to Sally and I'll paraphrase as you stated that Fitzpatrick couldn't use the same content as Hetherington because Leeds had won titles and most recently a treble and as far as the reception is concerned I'll ask you again to consider the comments that the fans had made below the 2017 open letter. Regarding the positive effect well it might have bought McDermott some time and yes look at Leeds now having stuck with their coach from the previous troubled year, or are you suggesting the upturn in Leeds' fortune is all to do with the letter? Maybe our board might follow Hetherington's example and stuck with the coach you know "emulating our more successful peers"?

Quote ="Wires71"Don't know what you mean about trump card - sorry. I never advocated the letter should have the same content as Hetheringtons. That would be stupid. On reception - I can only read into the fact that in 2016 Leeds easily escaped the MPG and in 2017 they sit 3rd in the league and McDermott was happy with the letter. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... er-to-fans. This is what leads me to think it was well received and had a positive effect.'" Your "trump card" was in response to Sally and I'll paraphrase as you stated that Fitzpatrick couldn't use the same content as Hetherington because Leeds had won titles and most recently a treble and as far as the reception is concerned I'll ask you again to consider the comments that the fans had made below the 2017 open letter. Regarding the positive effect well it might have bought McDermott some time and yes look at Leeds now having stuck with their coach from the previous troubled year, or are you suggesting the upturn in Leeds' fortune is all to do with the letter? Maybe our board might follow Hetherington's example and stuck with the coach you know "emulating our more successful peers"?

It's time now to hold our nerve and stay calm. We pull off a couple of mid season signings and we should still do the double. Now then Wire Men!! Let's do the Wire Fandango Boys! Let's do the Wire Fandangooo...

Worst troll ever.

Ha ha I wish. Doubt any club officials read this. Just getting a bit hysterical on here now. Used to be enjoyable reading , just a lot of whinging from some now.

What do you expect with the current shambolic situation?Want us dance on the ceiling?Not an happy clapper are you?

So the trump card is actually a fact I have used to support my argument. OK.

Don't you think we have stuck with the coach through the barren years 2013,2014,2015,2016,2017*
Maybe we should emulate Saints and try something new.

Just where are we in disagreement? What is your your position - Keep Smith and open letters are rubbish? Or are you just being contrary.


*Likely to be barren also.

To be fair, the clue was in the thread title.

The McDermott situation is an unfair comparison. He won lots of silverware then one year lost most of his experienced squad members whilst at the same time losing most of the preseason work due to the floods.

What we are taking about with Warrington is mediocrity for a few years followed by a good season without silverware followed by a clear decline in the ability of the squad. Remind me why he needs one more year? To prove what? We can finish mid-table with some new signings next year.

No wonder other big clubs' fans laugh at our pathetic blind hope. Maybe next year. Maybe next year we'll not finish in the bottom four. I can't wait.

I am not "JUST being contrary" at all i am trying to offer a balanced view that seemingly doesn't quite sit well with others including you and that's fine btw.

I can't disagree with the "trump card" as it is a fact what I can't fully accept is that ultimately it's use will only lead to one conclusion, rendering any other argument lost/not worth having. For example we have an open letter, the club pulls itself around we make the top 8's and win the cup, but, the answer is sack TS because we haven't won the GF yet again.

This may be the correct course of action, but, in a discussion sense it would appear that we are all wasting our time until we come to your way of thinking?

Not sure how stupid Tony Smith thinks Warrington fans are.

He'd like to win both competitions this season WOW!! I'd like to win the lottery no chance of that happening either
[urlhttp://www.totalrl.com/warringtons-season-not-hinge-wigan-cup-tie-says-tony-smith/[/url

"...when you draw someone like Wigan, it brings the best out of you hopefully. It was only a matter of a few weeks ago when both teams put on a strong game of rugby league, arguably the pick of the games at Magic Weekend.”

Our first game against Wigan didn't inspire me as it was a massive loss and we didn't look in it from the kick-off.

The Magic weekend game was awful and both teams did not put on a strong show IMO. A close game doesn't mean both teams played well.

Is this just a positive soundbite for the media, or does Smith genuinely believe we aren't playing that badly? I keep hearing this guff of 'fine margins' and 'not much between top and bottom', but we are so far off the pace of the top 7 clubs and have been all season. Anyone can see that, even if we are ripping it up in training as we keep being told.

Not sure I'd class '13 and '16 as barren, they were both very good seasons? Unless by that you just mean we didn't win the CC or SL?

Some people on here really need to lighten up.... We came top of the table last year, got to both finals and lost by the skin of our teeth. As a result we qualified for the WCC Which was brilliant. We've had a Add to disastrous season so far, but it's not over yet... So if me and the other Trolls can keep our spirits high, Why cant you?

Your funny I like you....


You cannot even be typing that with a straight face what does last seasons lls and failure to win two finals have any bearing on how we should feel after watching us play 18 games only win five and be in a 191pt deficit in the for and against Collum with no real signs of anything changing or the fact that we are looking to bring in mid season signings to try n make sure don't get relegated I think last time we did it was with johns in the ambition to try and win the gf but yes we should be happy in the general direction the club is going on as we nearly won something last year lmao

barren
ˈbar(ə)n/
adjective

[ishowing no results or achievements; unproductive.
[/i

Yes I don't class making finals and losing as an achievement. A final is a chance to achieve, not an achievement in itself. In the 5 years since 2012

Wigan - 2 SL Wins, 1 CC Win, 1 WCC including double
Leeds - 2 SL Wins, 2 CC Wins, 1 WCC, Including double
St Helens - 1 SL Win
Hull - 1 CC Win.
Warrington - 0.

I would suggest all the clubs have the same budgets and would have recruited a fair number of their squad in that 5 year cycle. So why do we have nothing to show for it ?

Why have you changed Leeds from 'including treble' to 'including double'?

Is it because the Leeds treble included winning the LLS and therefore if you're taking that into consideration, you'd have to acknowledge the fact we won it in 2016, therefore giving us a bit of credit and not fitting in with your argument?