Tony Smiths biggest season ever next year. .. if we don't get to one final he will be gone.

I don't doubt for one minute he will be told by moran and draper that the significant outlay in spending must be returned with some form of success.

We can not and will not watch this for another season.

At the moment the only reason I shall continue to watch this abysmal half d half hearted skill - less spineless shower of that couldn't get to a Final by having to beat dewsbury Leigh and Hull KR ...is because Chris Sandow will be playing. ......

Oh and after almost forty years of watching similar showers of ....I don't know any better. ....

Still ed off. ....

The fact that my support for Tony smith is wavering ,shows we have a problem here , one more season like this and it's goodbye , bloody interviews annoy me ,no passion and talks as if team performance is nothing to do with him

Passion and desire was a big difference in the teams yesterday

No lack of effort yesterday but when we didn't pull into a lead after twenty minutes you could see the team starting to doubt themselves.

Fragile confidence.

Yep , the confidence thing is a problem for the wire ,I don't think we're used to being favourites ,so many years of being the underdog , develops a certain mentality . When you watch Leeds ,saints or Wigan you can see they expect to win and have belief in themselves even when it's going against them. No coincidence that our best games have been when we were odds on to lose

Ratchford seems to be a jack of all trades but master of none...At best he's a broken field runner. To me Myler is better value teamwise, perhaps Ratchford should have gone.

I've never been ratchfords biggest fan for that very reason. Someone put it to me yesterday that we should swap him with charnley...sounded ridiculous at first but now I think it's a good idea

But is Ratchford really being used effectively ? When he partnered Myler at Salford they developed an effective halfback combination & Salford had a half decent side. Since being here TS has used him as the ultimate utility player with no position to call his own. Would it really be surprising if Ratchford did move on if offered a regular position at another club.

i would take that swap without hesitation.

We need to be careful of how we are treating ratchford, he's playing all over the place plugging holes, he will end up wanting to leave,, as no position tied down, he will prob loose his England slot, with no consistent position to call his own,,

I agree it has to be frustrating for him, fortunately for him he will be Wigan's regular Halve next season.

I can understand your frustration at the inconsistency your team's throwing up this year. Comfortably beat Leeds twice this season which shows when you get it together you're a top team. Hard to say where you're going wrong, but yesterday when Asotasi and England were on you lost any sort of control. But having said that, I don't think Sims is anywhere near as dominant as you'd expect. Clark will come good at some point though. He pretty much had zero pressure on him last year and could just play his natural game, but with all the talk at the start of the season about you having the best starting front row he's struggled. Chopping and changing your backline is strange as well. Every time I've seen you play you've had a different 1-7, which can only contribute to the lack of consistency.

Not for me deckchair, find a position for Ratchford and stick with it.

I also agree with Brady's Hand Off about the value of Myler to the team but not necessarily at the expense of Ratchord. There are plenty of others that I would have pointed in the direction of the exit door in front of these two (I know Myler's gone).

Getting back to the what we deserved thread what was Wheeler doing anywhere near a jersey? Baffling and one hit and guess what injured sorry Gary tatty bye

an unsettled dressing room thought theplayers and coaching staff had a clear the air meeting after our shambles at hull kr a few weeks ago...so whats happened

After a game especially following a loss Smith is always calm giving credit where credits due to the opposition as he did yesterday, but It was the first time I've seen him so down, in the dressing room he was visibly upset with a look of despair you could feel his disappointment, more worryingly he looked like a man with plenty on his mind not his usual calm in control self.

Thanks for the post , it's good to get a reasoned outside perspective ,I would always go for the most settled side possible ,we've been unlucky with injuries this season ,I know every team gets them but, ours always seem to be to vital players in positions we are short on ,wish we had Leeds props though and Zak

The exact same thing happened when we played Warrington at home bud.
Our backs ran the ball in quickly from AH and made massive meters. I assumed Smith wound have fixed it and TBH I was shocked when it started happening again.

Did anyone else see the exchange of looks as the confirmation of the broken jaw filtered through?
It looked to me that Penny asked Smith if he had broken it and Smith confirmed it. Penny then seemed to shrug his shoulders and then looked up and to his left and just noded. Who ever it was then gave him a look as if to say 'yep you were right'.
All very strange.

Wigan fans are convinced he's going to replace O'Laughlan at Loose.

I've just watched the tries from the match again. The two against us in the second half must be two of the softest tries scored all season. A bit of extra grunt from an individual and they get a touch down ... horrible to watch.

So we had to beat Dewsbury?, Leigh get a great draw (for both teams) against HKR for a shot at Wembley and we don't bother to turn up how many times will this club embarrass its self and its fans with half a$$ed performances? The mentality instilled in the club after 2009 should be a recurring theme drilled into every member every day. I cannot continue justifying the costs of watching these performances. Smith and his team have made howlers with recruitment over the last three years, from the none replacement of Briers to the mess of Assiteasy and Wheeler. I have been told how nice Smith is when he is met by fans, but he is stubborn and arrogant and I believe he has lost his way and the dressing room. Messers Moran and Draper will no doubt be looking at the situation and making assessments on the future of individuals at the club. Saturday was not the performance of winners or a big club.

True Smiffy27 not good to watch, but highlights our deficiencies as pointed out on other posts a massive job for Smith to correct for next season big pressure on him, hopefully we will start to see some improvement over the next few weeks, if we don't then that will raise a few questions.

It's been 3 years in a row where we've turned up to a cc semi and not produced. We were fairly crap against Leeds last year but worryingly we haven't learnt from the Hull fc game 3 years ago where we took an early lead and thought we'd won the game. I've watched it again and HKR make so many errors to gift us opportunities to get back in the game. We simply didn't want it enough and after such a poor first half the season, it worries me most of all that the side did not seem to value this opportunity to redeem
it. Goodness knows what Sandow thought of his new teammates. Apart from asiteasy's individual lack of effort, I believe his demeanor has rubbed of on the players. I believe if Morley had come on the pitch instead of asiteasy, we'd have won, even at this point in time his leadership would have brought the best out of his teammates.
I'm so relieved and glad that we have the new signings on their way for next season. Yesterday should have been the last chance saloon for some of those players after such a poor overall season.

Good that we have new replacements now or coming in next season. However they're all backs. Two props are needed to replace Asotasi and England, without that grunt off the bench when Sims and Hill are spelled, you can have the best backs in world rugby and it will mean little if you're forwards are getting smashed and making no ground

Sam Wilde and Philbin will have great futures, but they need some old head nasty interchange props to stop them being exposed, when the starting props are spelled

Really agree. I know many won't agree but I still think we should give England more time. He's shown enough in bits and bobs, especially the St George game for me to give him another year. If we could have a prop with Sim's attitude and Asotasi's (potential!) physical attributes I'd be happy. Some previous posters have mentioned the rule change regarding interchanges and that would (I'm guessing) have a large bearing on the type of props we should sign.