indeed I haven't read the early posts in this thread it would probably be to depressing. I can only assume Trent Waterhouse started this thread because he was clearly the biggest waste of jumper out there yesterday

Biscuit, are your sugar levels low again?
Waterhouse is an Australian international player ... just watch the game and see what he does and just as important watch what he stops. He is not a flamboyant player but for most part does the little things well ... if only everyone did

I agree with Biscuit all you Trent supporters always come back with the, 'you must be missing the subtle things he does argument', he's earning a living on reputation at the moment for me and that's not to suggest he cant have a big influence in our season's end. I also appreciate that he's had some time out with injury but we need him at his best not plodding through games.

He was poor yesterday IMO unfortunately he was not alone

I'll give you that he is returning to fitness and was blowing a bit after a few weeks out. I am not a particular fan but just think that his side of the field looks more solid when he is there then when he is not and it cannot be just coincidence or perhaps it can. I would be interested to see a stat for tries/breaks scored down his side when he is playing and when he is not. That might make me resign from the Trent fan club ..... or not

wasnt even getting back behind our play the balls until after the 3rd tackle in the first half.... on numerous occasions.

it was a woeful effort at Least Myler tried ..........

Alex Murphy thinks Waterhouse is and he'll do for me...........

What about the fact we went on a bit of a run of wins without him in the side and a teenager in his place....

Waterhouse looked shattered very early, but then so did Grix, Asotasi, Wood & Westwood to name but three. I don't think lack of effort was or every has been the problem with Trent, but his body language sometimes looks bad. The number of players we had coming back from injury always had the potential to blow up in our faces, and the lack of ball control and discipline that invited the blitzkrieg that was the first 25 minutes found us out.

The problem in the first half yesterday had very little to do with the halfbacks. The problem was that Leeds got the early initiative and never let it go. We were rarely in their half, and after Monas got a couple of knocks we had very little go forward. Your halfbacks cannot set up attacks from 70 metres out. We were out played on the day, get over it, on another day we may well seize the early initiative and not let go.

Biscuit, you make some very good points but I would rather have him fit and in our side during the run in than not

Waterhouse flatters to deceive and has been playing of reputation since he arrived.

I'm just hoping we don't give him another contract at the last min.

ive given him plenty of stick over the last few seasons... so im not going to start weighing in again properly. Even though i want to.

he is probably in the top 3 earners at the club. Wasted cap money. We didn't miss him at all when he was injured.

I like Trent but he was poor yesterday, very poor! You needn't worry though as he won't be at Warrington next season

I know that Simms is Trent's direct replacement.
My worry is as I was one of the last to finally give up on AsItEasi are we keeping him for another season?

Watching the game back I am not changing my opinion on Myler. Made lots of errors and his distribution is poor for a half.

Briers used to make him look good.

Time for a change.

What isn't working at the minute is the team, during the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons the team was everything. During 2012, 2013 and 2014 the team has been slowly breaking up with end 2013 seeing a big change. The worrying thing is that the changes haven't been met with successful replacements who have built the team back up.

Has the club chosen the correct replacements?

Since Briers retired we have bounced from "pillar to post" trying to find the elusive combination. Briers retirement was signalled mid way through 2013. At this point the club must have thought incumbant players were of sufficient quality not to break the bank searching for a replacement.

Hodgson's departure lost us a fantastic gaol kicker, third pivot and all round good full back. His replacement is far too green to draw comparisons, but a massive hole to fill.

Props moving on gave us a chance to blood upcoming guys and bring in some support for Hilly, with the exception of Ben Evans not much to shout about. We have gone from dominating teams to being rolled over very easily. If it helps i would buy a Rickshaw and take Asotasi home in it.

On the wing we have sent a decent lad off on loan and replaced with a work in progress model. Both have their critics and plaudits. Most of the issues for these two was the lack of form of their centre, who has now turned this around, but the wingers have not matched this.

The one thing that stands out for me though is the noticable lack of team spirit, without this we will not compete in any competition.

Finding out what has caused the loss of team spirit will answer alot of questions.

Interesting to see biscuit and deckchair bringing the Waterhouse name into the debate.

A few on here seem to think I'm a Waterhouse hater. IM NOT.


I just think he's a living example of "the Emporer's new clothes". Too many saying "did see that supporting run he did....genius", or, "he really runs the ball in hard". To be honest with you, that's a pre-requisite of any RL forward, yet alone with Test Match SoO experience.

Yes, Waterhouse did (understandably, due to lack of game time) look tired on Saturday, but I've seen plenty of similar performances from him, when he's been fully fit. I don't get the love-in for "House" on here.
As I've said before, we've got Gary Sanderson (dependable) for (I assume) Matt King's salary.

There wont be any tears from me, when he goes to Manchester airport in October, But I wont say good riddance (which we need to do with that wage thief Asotasi). I just wish Smith had kept the receipt when we signed him. I don't think we got a devastating running second rower, which we were promised when we got him. We got a second rower. Nothing more, nothing less. Certainly no better than Louis Anderson (imo), and he was a penalty machine

Fact still remains, we need an organiser. Until we get one, I think we'll come up short.

Would love us to go for Travis Burns, he is nuts but I love watching him and he is a good organiser on the field!

What did you make of Ratchford, then Bridge as his halback partner?

We were never promised that, that makes him sound like a gaz hock smasher type of second row. He was described as a high quality off loader, which he has been, aside from bedding in period at the start of '12, when the whole team as somewhat affected Trent's been quality, the actual problem is based on the description about the off loads, everyone over here was expecting Solomona mark two, with all his crazy as that was what we were used to, but thats not him, he's a classic australian workhorse, a stats grinder, defensively very good, and in the main going forward he's been very good. And miles better than penalty machine 'oops i'm shooting for the big hit and leaving a gap' louis anderson.

I'm with you on the leader though, its dreadfully aparent, people are asking about westwood's form dipping with the captaincy, personally i think its more due to the fact he hasn't got Lee briers (or anyone) stood next to him, bellowing in his bloody ear saying "run at that fecker". It would appear that non of the 4 supposed options we have at 6/7 are capable of doing it. We need to look elsewhere.

There is a definite lack of leadership on the field.

Wow do I miss Briers increasingly as time goes on.

I have to disagree strongly with that.. going forward he has been almost completely anonymous. I think he has the lowest meterage of all out regular forwards for over 2 season now. Last season he made 244 carries in the whole season.. Westwood made 413

looks at the meters made

Hill - 3131
Westwood - 2895
Wood - 2518
Grix - 2384
Cooper - 1951
Carvell - 1900
Waterhouse 1490

And i bet the majority of those meters were in their half when were winning... when the chips are down and were pinned near our line. You wont see big trent near the ball if he can help it.

That is what winds us up: He never puts his hand up for the hard yards and red zone carries.

Lazy?

I saw a defence of it on here once that went something like 'maybe thats what Smith is asking him to do'.

[i"ok trenty... when the oppo is near our line and were under the cosh, it would be just lovely if you could go stand on the wing for a bit.. is that ok mate?.. dont worry, Benny Westwood will just carry the ball in twice every set.. we don't want you hurting yourself and ruining that lovely defence do we?"[/i

If Briers was the crutch that supported our team & made it sparkle ,then it's a pretty damning indictment of our coaching staff not to have restored some of what has been missing for over 12 months ago when Lee's career effectively came to an end. They are supposed to be top professional RL coaches .
Contrast Daryl Powell at Cas who has so far turned a squad of mainly journeymen & cast offs into a very good, confident side.

Should it have told us something when Gary Chambers moved on ,& now Poaching & Marshall are warming the tandem up for a quick end of season get away.

Now, for all those who've got the life size posters of "House" on their ceilings, hoping the blu-tack will give way, I'd say those figures are pretty damning.

I've never been a lover of stats, they can cloud judgement (in a Godfather way).
I'd rather judge a player with what I see with the naked eye.
Yes, the fella is superb at taking "crash" balls, and having 3 of the opposition to take him down, but I want more for my (alleged) £200k p.a., when I'm watching an established Aussie Test player.
Plenty of times I've seen "House", when we're struggling to clear our line, having a blow, hands on knees, and not take the ball forward once in a set of six. I've seen Rick Thackray take the ball up twice in a set, 20 odd years ago, even when we had real bruisers in our line-up. When someone pulls on the P&B, I expect 100% commitment, whether you're a legend, a youngster, a superstar, or plain crap. We shouldn't settle for anything less. Alas, at times we do.

...and there, ninearches, is our problem.

I'm but a humble fan, but could see at the tail end of the 2012 season, along with Morley, that these 2 players were affectively finished. The alarm bells should have been deafening.

We enter 2013, and Morley is laboured, and Briers effectiveness in games is clearly on the wane.
True, they both stand up and be counted (we'd expect nothing less of these two), but they are shadows of their former selves. They both had some great games in 2013 (Briers particularly in the play-off v Leeds), but it was plain to see (at least to me) that they were done for.

The worrying thing is, that hadn't Briers specialist advised him to quit, he'd still be playing. And as much as the analogy hurts, it would've been like watching the old family pet suffer, when the best thing to do was put him down.

The winter of 2012 is when we should have acted. We're nearly 2 years down the line, and we've bolstered out team in these positions, by the addition of Anthony England.
We've missed the boat, I fear.