You should still be able to see whether the team has improved or not, through the season, not just wait for one or two games and judge it off that.

Take Tony Smith's first two seasons, 2009 and 2010. In both seasons, when it came to the Challenge Cup big games, we won. But you could also make a fair judgement that we were better in 2010 than in 2009.

I don't buy this idea that the playoffs are an entirely random competition once you get there. Some of these league fixtures expose weaknesses that we have that will get ruthlessly exposed in a big game.

The irony is that if we end up playing Saints in the Grand Final and lose, people on here will say we "bottled it" as though once again we have gone in as hot favourites, and blown it on the big occasion against a team we really should have beaten, when really, we're going to go in as underdogs for a reason.

Note I am still pretty much expecting us to make both Wembley and Old Trafford, which means I'm implicitly discounting the idea that any team like Cas, Hull or Wigan would get there ahead of us. I am probably just as deluded as anyone on that front.

Shows poor squad management/team selection for me; surely wiser to give him his first proper run out against Salford at Home than tricky Cas away or a CC Semi Final.

At the very least he’d have shown more enthusiasm than some of that shower last night.

Yeah i don't get why we'd give him 20 mins last week then simply leave him out this week, seems bizzare unless he was awful which by all accounts he did ok. Should have been on the bench again this week.

He's had a baby in the mean time. Maybe his partner needed him more than us.

I was in Patton’s corner at the start but let’s be honest, he’s looking like a kid pretending to play halfback in his garden. He can’t think fast enough, waits for the perfect opportunity to present itself rather than creating it.

Mamo shows sparks of some great stuff but isn’t anywhere near as consistent as Ratchford. Okay as support but prefer him on the edge rather than at the back.

Again, we lacked that killer instinct. It’s not just going to come out of the box ready made in the playoffs. We need to be rehearsing it now.

We have one of the modern era's best half backs on the coaching staff . You would think he would be able to improve Patton's game even with just a few tweaks here & there.

The thing is with Briers however inconsistent he was he was always capable of creating something. Regrettably I don’t see that in Patton. But there doesn’t seem to be any alternative unless Price decides to go left field and play eg Livett there.
“We’re doomed I tell ye...”

Did we all see the wind ups he was doing in order to pass the ball?

Do I think Patton is good enough? Not really. Do I think he was the reason we lost? Not really. I agree with FMC that the Charnley no try had an affect on our demeanour we were quickly and very obviously a beaten team.

I can't understand with Hill Cooper BMM Ratchford and Brown out, Westwood and Atkins seemingly out of favour, we have Livett and Johnson out on loan and Burrell not in contention it doesn't make sense to me at all a paper thin squad of our own making.

We don't appear to have a settled team and our form is iffy bordering on whiffy, places for the showpiece games should be up for grabs no one should be safe. Unless of course Price is as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed professor of cunning at Chester University

Ahhhh fair play

I agree Patton wasn’t the reason we lost. I hope Price will give some of those on the edges of the squad a go and prove he is Cunning McCunning prof of Cunning at Cunningchester Uni

There's short memories on here.
Briers wasn't the gods gift people like to keep measuring Patton too.
Briers came good only after a clean up threat following years of mediocrity, to play playing behind Morley Carvel Anderson's Waterhouse Monaghan Higham Wood Westwood.....
My Granny would be MOS at half back behind that pack...
Patton was behind Tasi and a host of backrowers on Friday that would even be in our 25 squad 7 years ago.

Just get off your Patton scapegoating, Briers sun shines out of his backside garbage, and look at the woods behind the trees

We could all go round and round but at the end of the day Dec Patton is simply crap. End of.

No ones measuring Patton against Briers. Patton's a stop gap half back due to Brown's injury, and he's not our first choice next year (Austin disappearing after one season excepted).
He's plugging a gap, which I accept, but he wouldn't be my first choice of half back as he just isn't good enough.

He's not the only one I don't rate, as the club is carrying a few passengers at the present.

It's been said he's a good lad. Very respectful. But I must agree with you.

There have, in the last few years, been [iplenty[/i of occasions when the full strength Wires pack has steamrolled the opposition and given the backs a chance to shine.

[iPlenty[/i of occasions.

Notably, Ratchford, Clark, Austin & Brown have all delivered majestic performances on the back of it. Patton, to date, has not.

It’s been mentioned a few times that maybe it’s the weight of expectation on him with being the local lad that’s affecting Pattons performances.

I just wonder whether he also feels additional peer pressure with his dad also being on the Warrington coaching staff.

Like a double whammy.

If that's the case, he's played enough times to have overcome this some while ago

I would agree with that , which is why I wonder if the latter peer pressure situation is what could be holding Dec back.

Which makes me think, maybe Steve Price should play the women’s team in the next match at Cas, could they be any worse ?

You've posted some tosh on here over the years duckie, but tonight, you've surpassed yourself. There were umpteen games when we were at our lowest ebb (2002, the last year of Cullen, the Lowes debacle and him playing behind packs including a washed-up Dale Laughton, that plonker who claimed he could crush tennis balls, or Simon Gillies) where Briers has pulled us out of the brown, messy stuff, and got us a win. I can't think of ONE occasion where Patton has played half back, and caused a game changing situation in our favour, in the last 4 seasons.

Get it into your rubber skull, that Patton is NOT a scapegoat for losses. He is, however, a MASSIVE contributing factor, in our failure to win games/trophies.

Back on Briers. Years of mediocrity???? That "campaign" of Hemmings [iBriers for Britain[/i must have been a figment of people's imaginations. Scores of MotM performances gained from 97 onwards (including, iirc, one from him in a CC Semi LOSING side). I'm the last person to [iblow smoke[/i up Briers' proverbial, but come on, don't type e. It does you no favours.

Patton is not good enough. Plain and simple. He isn't the reason why we lost on Friday. But he sure as hell is a factor.

In reference to Patton, to quote a famous Parliamentary speech "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Carrying far too much deadwood at the minute. Tasi, Mamo, Patton, Walker, BMM, Atkins, Brown, J. Johnson, L. Johnson, Westwood.

Sell the lot and bring in two horrible, mean props who will come on and do the same work as Coops and Hill, a second row and a frigging half back.

Currie can eff off to the stands for now an all. Offers absolutely nothing, you can see the skill is there but he's quite clearly holding back. There is no room on a pitch for someone who is scared, drop him and when he's ready bring him back as a 13. the lad is far to skillful and should be floating round running at any opportunity he sees and becoming that important link between the halves and fullback.

He's getting married soon so maybe that has something to do with it, doesn't want to be going down the aisle in a wheelchair. Which makes him scared and holding back so see my above point again.

Can't get rid of 10 players to only bring in 2. Most teams have fringe players but i agree Price needs to be ruthless and get rid of those not taking their chance when it's there. As for Currie i do find it hard to believe, as a professional sportsman he thinks about his wedding once he gets on the stage as it were.

not once..... not even a 10 min cameo.... nothing.

If he’s going down the aisle he has a right to be scared.

Ben Barba purposely played half d to not get injured for his next gig. Im not saying its purely because of his wedding, after the surgery and everything else hes had on his knee the lad is clearly playing with it at the back of his mind. You can't play with fear and if thats what he has then he shouldn't be allowed onto the field. Waste of a shirt.