Cunningham was an all time great, the best ever when close to the line I'd say. He had that knack of brilliantly timing a pass so as to tease the defensive line into going for it, only for a average player like Stankevitch, Pickavance or Hargreaves to trundle onto it and end up flopping over the line without being touched. If somehow you manage to stop him doing that, he'd just pinch one himself. He also had that magical quality of making 12 other players defend better even without doing any tackling himself, just because he was there. It wouldn't have been the end of the game we'd have won that if KC had played, it would have been the first half where we had a two week camping trip on the Warrington try line and never scored a point.

We'll never replace him, no matter how brilliantly Roby plays. But it is a testament to Robes that there aren't many Saints fans discussing us missing Keiron. He is the reason we've not 'done a Bradford' and dropped well outside the 8 this season. We're punching above our weight with the squad we've got and we've done it with 6 or 7 missing most weeks.

If James Roby played for Wire and Monaghan played for Saints you would have laughed us off if we started this debate.

Does anyone REALLY think Monas does as much in attack as James Roby? seriously
Does anyone REALLY think Monas does as much in defence as James Roby? seriously
Does anyone REALLY think Monas is a 80 min a week man like James Roby is? seriously.

But I am honest, Monas probably has a better kicking part to his game and that is the only department he wins.

so he should if he can get it for playing half a season he should stroll it if he plays a full one..any how monas for me by a country mile

Go back to the season, he won it playing half a season and I bet his stats were ridiculous even then, especially for time he was on pitch...

was a ridiculous decision...theres others who stand a chance of m.o.s.for one ben westwood.if he played for saints he`d walk it

Firstly it seems you have not disagreed with my comment, because if you have took time to check, you would have to agree? so I accept your acceptance on that.

As for Ben Westwood a class player I would sign him for Saints without a doubt, tbh your best player that I feel puts in the effort and stats week in and week out, I not going to say anything detrimental on him. I can admit he is a cracking player.


I speak sense.

If he played for Saints he'd have been out for 9 weeks with an ankle injury so wouldn't be in the running for anything bar a spot of rehab.

thats a matter of opinion

Please can someone tell me how any one of our players is going to top a tackle count in this league when we spent then entire Game against Quinns Scoring tries of all style and Quality.... High Fecking fiving....and kicking bleedin conversions.....?

similarly when We put sixty odd past crusaders, 58 past the bulls, 40 past Leeds... blah blah blah blah.

Ooooohh I'd Love to trade those scorelines above Just So Mick Monaghan can come Out top in a tackle count list..!!!

absolutely ridiculous and stats based non arguments

When Roby Can Make a 40/20 from Dummy half look as Easy as pooing on your neighbours lawn in the middle of the Night i'll have him, in fact The NRL will have him. just send them an E-mail that Roby Makes more dummy half runs than Cam Smith....

Who's style is most similar to Smith, Farrah, and Ennis, the best 3 in the world...Roby or Monas...???

thank you

So much arrogance when you've won so little. You are above us on points difference, yet you speak like you are unbeaten in 6 months and 8 points clear at the top. Warrington are far from unbeatable. God knows how jumped up you will be when you finally win a Super League title.

You mention 40:20s. Monaghan is hardly impressive at that either. 1 so far this season. You reckon having a kicking game is now the only important factor in being a hooker?

Arrogance...what are you on about I asked a genuine Question because people have rarley made an Argument that isnt based around Statistics....

We have clearly had more possesion than our opposition because in some games we have scored a considerable amount of points. And heres a wild one When youve got possession you arent tackling



Maybe Tony Smith will ensure we dont complete our sets and turnover plenty of ball in our next games so we can get Mick Monas to tackle his nuts off and top a stats list on the Superleague Website.....

missed this

yes thats exactly What I said wasnt it....... take it how you want youve mentioned a Stat like the rest so I'm clearly fecked....

You basically said you'll rate Roby when he came demonstrate an ability to kick 40:20s with pooing-on-next-door's-lawn-ease .

As for your bit about tackling. Warrington have dropped as many points as Saints this season so maybe Monaghan could have done more, who knows?

You seem to be one of those fans who can't take anyone suggesting there is a rival player who is better than one of your own.

There is alot of talk of 40/20's but I can only see 1 from the warrington hooker this year, it's hardly a key stat in the games this season.

The year before is was 3 to 1 for MM and the year before that it was 2 a piece. These are hardly the figures to base a kicking game on.

Lets face it from that stat John wilkin has a better kicking game than both put together and he spends most of his games in the 2nd row.

I would add the fact Monaghan has an accurate passing game, too.

As expected the Saints fans have made a strong defence of Roby in this thread. Yes the stats are very revealing and looking through season by season does show on stats he is probably the best player in SL. Also as has been pointed out he is now holding together a Saints side which has lost a lot of quality players in recent years and he is keeping them at a level where they are still credible double winners so that does deserve respect, he is becoming a figure like Farrell was for Wigan in around 1999-04.

I think I was wrong to say at that he was a bit overrated, maybe he's one who you have to see in your team every week to properly appreciate him. I used to see Cunningham and think he was the best British player since Hanley and I didn't get that feeling about Roby but the case for Roby is convincing.

I wouldn't trade Monaghan for Roby though and I don't think that's just pro-Wire bias against a Saints player, over the years I would have happily traded most of our players for Saints players if the chance had come up. Monaghan has got some intangibles that I wouldn't give up, I think it's as an attacking force from hooker in the final third of the field he just takes the right option all the time. I always have confidence when Monaghan has the ball that he is just someone who knows how to get a team around the field, which Briers does as well.

All those years we have been saying we needed a halfback partner for Briers to take the pressure off him but actually another creative halfback would get in his way, what we really needed was someone to take the team around the field from dummy half which wouldn't tread on Briers toes for taking the team around the field from the halves. It's like Andrew Johns and Buderus at Newcastle.

Great thread, proper rugby discussion………

(Waits for said discussion to be dragged down to phallic measuring)

Both great players, Monas is better though.

Although both players nominally play in the same position, in reality they don’t. In order to formulate an argument as to who is the best player, it would be natural to look at the statistics for said position and compare. The problem with this analysis is that both players have completely different remits within their respective teams. So any analysis based on numbers, is fundamentally flawed.

Positions, and therefore specific roles within the team, are not set in stone. If you were to google ‘what does a hooker do?’ (Do not do this, even with safe search on. I am merely suggesting this in a hypothetical context and in no way wish to encourage or condone the typing of the above phrase into google)

Anyway, there is no definitive answer to the question.

Roby is a forward type 9, with a bit of the halfback type bit.
Monas is a halfback type 9, with a bit of the forward type bit.

Roby could play as a forward but not as a half back.
Monas could play as a halfback, but not as a forward.

Sorry there is not much substance to my argument, I just think Monas is the better player. When I watch the two of them I’m more impressed by him. He has so much more to his game. Roby, at the moment is probably more effective, but Monas can adapt what he does and completely control a game like no other player in SL at the moment.

Roby is an incredible athlete, Monaghan has an incredible rugby brain, to put it bluntly.

Which is more effective is hard to say.

very well sumerised!

Different types of hooker. Monas will create lots of attacks through attacking the line and setting up attacking through a short or long pass just before or after breaking the line, or a long pass which creates an overlap outwide, which doesn't show up on a stat sheet. Roby is perfect for the way Saints play, they've always got teams on the backfoot with their quick play the balls and he is a bundle of energy which doesnt' and wouldn't translate well in the NRL, which doesn't make him a bad player. Monas is more of a creative player who set's up through his rugby brain and spotting weaknesses in defence. If you swapped both players around I don't think either team would be as succesfull due to their styles.

I know how Harry Hill would settle this.

I guess we will have to wait until England play the Exiles and Wire play Saints. maybe then we can re-judge

Completely neutral on this one, so here's my twopenny worth.

Both are excellent players and vital cogs in their teams.
They are two different styles of players, Roby is a dynamic running hooker, particularly from dummy half and he also does more than his fair share of tackling.

Monaghan, is a crafty scheming hooker and IMO has a better creative, passing and kicking game.

Would Monaghan as a starting hooker improve Saints, I don't think so
Would Roby as a starting hooker improve Wire, I don't think so.
The teams play different styles of RL.

Roby, because he is younger would in all probability be the choice for most fans of other clubs. However, I prefer the Monaghan style as I really don't line head down, arris up scooter hooker, but accept it suits some teams and some situations.

In all honestly, I'd have to say Monas is second behind Roby in SL. The stats back it up, and Roby is an absolute machine. If you took him out of the Saints squad, then their ability to go forward would come to a halt.

However, both are equally as important to their respective teams.

Think Sally asked who's best out of Atkins and Shenton. Atkins for me all day, particularly at the moment.