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| Sorry gents, but Declan wasn't dropped because he is being made a scapegoat, or because TS is picking on him due to his youth, he was dropped because his performances have been average at best and frequently anonymous culminating in an abject Salford showing.
Yes he is not alone in his form and there is a case for dropping several players but we can't replace the whole team. I thought last nights team selection reeked of desperation and wasn't what I would have gone for but he got it right in dropping Patton.
I hope ALL our halfbacks spent the night watching George Williams - now there is a real class half back, never mind a young one. He scared the hell out of our defence and ripped us to shreds.
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| Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Sorry gents, but Declan wasn't dropped because he is being made a scapegoat, or because TS is picking on him due to his youth, he was dropped because his performances have been average at best and frequently anonymous culminating in an abject Salford showing.
Yes he is not alone in his form and there is a case for dropping several players but we can't replace the whole team. I thought last nights team selection reeked of desperation and wasn't what I would have gone for but he got it right in dropping Patton.
I hope ALL our halfbacks spent the night watching George Williams - now there is a real class half back, never mind a young one. He scared the hell out of our defence and ripped us to shreds.'"
I'm sure I said in my OP that the reason he was dropped was because Smith had deemed his recent performances not good enough.
My argument is that more senior established players such as Atkins (actually he gets rewarded with a new deal), Russell who have been woeful this season get a free pass. You say that we cannot replace the full team but I think Penny would be a better option on the wing than Russell.
I'm not sure why you think he got it right in dropping Patton. We still looked absolutely clueless and devoid in attack.
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| Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Sorry gents, but Declan wasn't dropped because he is being made a scapegoat, or because TS is picking on him due to his youth, he was dropped because his performances have been average at best and frequently anonymous culminating in an abject Salford showing.
Yes he is not alone in his form and there is a case for dropping several players but we can't replace the whole team. I thought last nights team selection reeked of desperation and wasn't what I would have gone for but he got it right in dropping Patton.
I hope ALL our halfbacks spent the night watching George Williams - now there is a real class half back, never mind a young one. He scared the hell out of our defence and ripped us to shreds.'"
All well and good but don't hang a kid low in confidence out to dry in a press conference and destroy that fragile confidence even more.
Why not say we wanted to try something different etc.
On that why not play Livett at centre, Gidley at 7 and Johnson FB. Also why leave one of the few bright sparks this season in Savelio on the bench
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| Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Sorry gents, but Declan wasn't dropped because he is being made a scapegoat, or because TS is picking on him due to his youth, he was dropped because his performances have been average at best and frequently anonymous culminating in an abject Salford showing.
Yes he is not alone in his form and there is a case for dropping several players but we can't replace the whole team. I thought last nights team selection reeked of desperation and wasn't what I would have gone for but he got it right in dropping Patton.
I hope ALL our halfbacks spent the night watching George Williams - now there is a real class half back, never mind a young one. He scared the hell out of our defence and ripped us to shreds.'"
Granted, but Williams as the finished article is a pretty recent development. Blew hot and cold plenty when he was first given the number 6 shirt, but kept faith and now we're seeing the rewards.
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| is this not typical of us this its always the younger inexperienced players that are first to be dropped, emphasised by our own brevity that we would be favourites just because they had two wingers taht were inexperienced well the didn't quite plan out
Declan will have some off games but experiencing them kinds of games and being given the opportunity to bounce back from it is just as valuable experience as winning games. its also ironic that when fans favourites briers had a bad game he was playing behind a beaten pack well so has Declan.
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| Brown was thoroughly anonymous last night. Saw that all too frequently when he played for other sides. Always picks and chooses his games. Awful. Don't think Patton should've been singled out when there have been far worse showings from 1-13 in recent weeks.
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| cant fathom this selection out.drop a half back and replace him with a centre brilliant..from what ive seen of young declan this season he`s not done a lot wrong and being young he will make mistakes..just a shame he gets the chop and others dont..
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| The situation with Dec will be interesting when Brown & Gidley pick up injuries & the Messiah has to rely on the latest scapegoat.I hope Dec tells him to shove his redemption where the sun don't shine.
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| Looking from the outside what I find strange is Smith dropped Patton for a kid who is a centre. It's one thing to ask an experienced player to move out of position into the halves but to move a kid who has had only a handful of games is poor judgement imo.
On Thursdays performance, if anyone should me made a scapegoat it's Gidley who was truly awful.
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| Quote ="Trainman"Looking from the outside what I find strange is Smith dropped Patton for a kid who is a centre. It's one thing to ask an experienced player to move out of position into the halves but to move a kid who has had only a handful of games is poor judgement imo.
On Thursdays performance, if anyone should me made a scapegoat it's Gidley who was truly awful.'"
Livett can play centre or SO, where he played the bulk of his U19 games. His (personal) preference is however BR. His kicking from hand is probably not as good as Patton, but otherwise you can certainly interchange the two players. And with Patton looking rather ordinary, atm why not.
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| Quote ="Winslade's Offload"Livett can play centre or SO, where he played the bulk of his U19 games. His (personal) preference is however BR. His kicking from hand is probably not as good as Patton, but otherwise you can certainly interchange the two players. And with Patton looking rather ordinary, atm why not.'"
Patton was excellent for you guys in the reserves game today, probably the only one who looked at all dangerous. Your #8 looked good, too, don't know his name, big guy with a ginger beard...?
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| Quote ="Geoff"Patton was excellent for you guys in the reserves game today, probably the only one who looked at all dangerous. Your #8 looked good, too, don't know his name, big guy with a ginger beard...?'"
Ed Sheeran?
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| Quote ="Geoff"Patton was excellent for you guys in the reserves game today, probably the only one who looked at all dangerous. Your #8 looked good, too, don't know his name, big guy with a ginger beard...?'"
Lee Mitchell ?
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| There is of course the other shoe that TS is trying to protect the young halfbacks confidence by not selecting him and letting him play in the U19 and as a poster already stated had a good game.
It's a lot easier for senior players to take the criticism that comes along with not winning than a young kid.
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| Quote ="Punos"There is of course the other shoe that TS is trying to protect the young halfbacks confidence by not selecting him and letting him play in the U19 and as a poster already stated had a good game.
It's a lot easier for senior players to take the criticism that comes along with not winning than a young kid.'"
He's the same age as George Williams, give or take a few months, I think...George has over 60 games under his belt by now.
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| What is said behind closed doors could/should be different than what is said to the press and the baying fans. Dangerous precedent saying Patton was dropped for poor performances. If he doesn't do the same for more experienced players (who should be stepping up in times like this), it'll cause issues with the fans, but also the players.
End of day, Declan is playing in the senior side, so no bubble-wrapping should be happening. In Smith's ideal 13, he probably wouldn't start anyway.
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Did Williams not have a spell out of the Wigan team during the early part of last season or was he just injured? Could've swore Wane left him out for a bit but could be wrong.
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Did Williams not have a spell out of the Wigan team during the early part of last season or was he just injured? Could've swore Wane left him out for a bit but could be wrong.
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| Quote ="DAG"Did Williams not have a spell out of the Wigan team during the early part of last season or was he just injured? Could've swore Wane left him out for a bit but could be wrong.'"
He was injured.
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| Quote ="DAG"Did Williams not have a spell out of the Wigan team during the early part of last season or was he just injured? Could've swore Wane left him out for a bit but could be wrong.'"
wane had faith in him and gave him the spot for a season to sink or swim mistakes and errors and all something smith has never ever ever done so our younger players suffer on the back of it as shown this season a bad game or not a great one and he is dropped.
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| Ben Currie?
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| Quote ="The All New Chester Wire"Ben Currie?'"
A good point although has Currie suffered and TS had to put up with a loss of form? I also think barring injuries TS would have stuck with Toby King
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| Any comparisons of how Wane treated Williams compared to how TS has treated Patton are not like for like. Williams was obviously a far better player than Patton was. You can make the comparison between Currie and Williams as both were very talented players already, and TS certainly gave him time. I seem to remember some posters on here being very critical of him at some stages, yet he was still picked every week.
We also don't know much about how Patton himself will cope with the loss in form, is he likely to worry and let it affect his performances, in which case continuing to play him will just compound the problem, or is he the type that will just want to play on without it affecting him?
We are also assuming that have had been dropped due to a drop in form, rather than there being anything else going on behind the scenes that we don't know about - I'm not suggesting that's the case, I wouldn't know, but it highlights that we don't always know what goes on behind closed doors, so we're not always in a position to criticise.
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| Quote ="Alffi_7"Any comparisons of how Wane treated Williams compared to how TS has treated Patton are not like for like. Williams was obviously a far better player than Patton was. You can make the comparison between Currie and Williams as both were very talented players already, and TS certainly gave him time. I seem to remember some posters on here being very critical of him at some stages, yet he was still picked every week.
'"
Described as a coward, I seem to remember.
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