Harsh. You have to remember that this was the first vote for many of these kids. It is only with age that they will develop that cynicism that the rest of us have, the trust of youth! And they wonder why there is so much apathy around election time!

Yes and the Lib Dems did specifically target the student vote, on the basis of their opposition to tuition fees. When they went into coalition it was inevitable that both parties would have to drop some things from their manifestos as part of the negotiation process. The Tories for instance had been promising to reduce inheritance tax and they dropped that. Lib Dems had been campaigning against nuclear power and Chris Huhne is now Energy minister and looking to bring in a new wave of nuclear power stations. Nobody is up in arms protesting against these. The reason the fees issue has gone so sour for the Lib Dems is because they went touring round the university circuit stirring up students in opposition to Labour bringing in tuition fees, and threatening that if Labour got back in then the Browne report could end up advocating £7000 fees for students. So they got a lot of student support and Nick Clegg relies heavily on the student vote in his constituency of Sheffield Hallam. Now they are in government and are presiding over a policy which is bringing in potentially higher fees than was originally feared, the student vote has turned against them. They have got 57 MPs at the moment but I wouldn't be surprised if at the next election they drop back down to 20 or so, probably their vote will drift off to the Greens and various smaller socialist parties.

Lots of people just take the default cynical line on parties and elections like flying biscuit has: "they never keep their manifesto promises" but when someone says that if you ask them to give examples they struggle to find any, because this doesn't happen very often. They are very wary of breaking explicit promises because they know the opposition and media will slaughter them about it like George Bush (senior) saying 'read my lips: no new tax rises'. As a result you learn to infer what they are really going to do by what is left vague or left out of a manifesto, or what the leave open to interpretation in answer to questions, eg when the Tories or Liberals were asked about if they would put VAT up, they always announced "well we have no plans at this point to raise VAT, but nobody can rule it out...". This was basically obvious that they were going to rise it. I read later on that in internal meetings in Labour, Ed Balls had wanted Labour to take advantage of this by making an explicit pledge to not raise VAT, but Gordon Brown refused, probably because he also planned to hike up VAT at the next budget.

100% parasites the Royal family!Only parasites imo are the lazy students who think i as a tax payer should fund their education.I say get off your ars$s + fund it that way + as for supporting the violence they get all they deserve.Can't expect the coppers just to stand there waiting to get beaten up.Get the water cannons out,soon disperse then.

The Liberal Democrats are, under Clegg, a disgrace. A friend of mine was one of Charles Kennedy's advisors, and a parliamentary candidate for the party at the last two elections. He has recently resigned his twenty-odd year membership of the party.

Clegg has taken the party into government (of sorts), but he has also pretty much ensured that they'll be back as an irrelevance again come the next General Election.

As a few have mentioned i believe the majority of people involved are workshy tax dodging layabouts yes not students but paracites of society. The Hoody massive, the wannabe gangstas and all they have done is jump on a bandwagon where they are intent on causing violence because that is what good ole England has become. This is not helping the real students who are struggling to fight their corner.
But in my eyes too many students use going to Uni as an excuse to not work and despite them getting a degree in the films of Quentin Tarantino they still end up in an o2 call centre which is why they dont want to pay anthing. They just wanna bum around sniffing tip ex and drinking cheap booze. The ones who actually go to Uni to learn for "Proper Jobs" will be able to afford any fees when they graduate. Remember they only pay once they finish.

I was going to go uni next year but after the rise there is now way I can and will put myself in that amount of debt,

And people calling students layabouts is quite frankly ing me off, I am currently at college I am in 5 times a week and work 38 hours aswell, so stop tarring everyone with the same brush.

I was going to do programming at uni the course I wanted to do has risen from 3,500 to 8,450 that is a 5 year course on top of that to eat and pay rent I'm looking at another 2,000, so that's around 50,000 pound in debt then I will also be looking to buy a house with my girlfriend so put that on top of that then that is a monsterous amount.

you will find the word student is being used to describe university folk. You are still in free education.

As for the debt, welcome to the real world.

Check the details as my daughter has been informed that the new proposals start for university entrants in 2012. If you strat an undergraduate course in 2011 then the old capping rules will apply.

This is exactly why the increase in fees is wrong. Prospective students from generally poorer backgrounds will choose not go to University because of the huge debt. A £15k debt compared to a £50k debt !! Disgraceful. People try to excuse the trebling of fees (In some cases) by stating that it won't have to be repaid until a salary of over £20k is being earned. Well that ain't a lot. We'll be penalising people in 'normal' trades & professions. Christ it's hard enough for young people to get onto the housing ladder now never mind when having to carry a further £50k of baggage.

The 'layabout student' thing is just a generalisation made by people who just don't like them. My daughter's a student who also works 25 hours a week in a restaurant often working till the early hours. She works harder than anybody else I know. There are layabouts in every section of the community.

Will the protests make any difference. Highly unlikely but should we just accept laws like this without a fight. No effing way....

One the detailed proposals are explained..rather than just the media headlines.. you will find that children from "poorer" families will largely be unaffected as they will either qualify under the governments scholarship programme are the netwrook of assiatnce and bursaries offer by the universities themselves. The biggest losers will be the kids from "normal, average, hard working, never claimed for anything" families who will be hammered with the full fees with no assistances or handouts. (Aint these the same families who voted "anti-labour" at the last election and got the Tories in......watch for these measures to be reviewed immediately prior to the next election).

I can't be bothered reading through 4 pages of drive,however....

you can't say some of the students actions were acceptable,because they are NOT.however you have to understand the anger of the young generation, we are being led into the next generation of tory deadwood,education should be for ALL not just for whoever has mummy and daddy to pay for it.

EMA/ALG is being scrapped (thats £30 a week for the costs of attending college over 2/3 years),raising tuition fees to more than double for most students...it is NOT right at all what this government are doing to the future of this country.

Im a student at Chester,and as i leave next year it won't effect me but i feel ashamed and sorry for the younger generation leaving school in the next 3 years...no jobs, unaffordable education,welcome to the UK kids.

RIP 'Great' Britain

Under the promise of spreading democracy to other parts of the world, young men have been killed in two world wars and more recently in Afghanistan and Iraq– and yet we current have a government currently in place doing things for which it has no mandate. Even worse, promises that were made are being broken.

Democracy implies that the voter has some influence on the decisions made – and once this link is lost, history tells us that violent protest is the likely outcome. I can’t condone it, but I feel there is a degree of inevitability about it.

On the subjects of students and education, it’s a shame that government doesn’t help encourage or facilitate the path that was open to my baby boom generation. I left school at 16 and then completed an HNC on day release. This involved about 12hrs/ week study plus homework time. Later in my 40s I took an Open University degree. This again took about 12 hrs/ week and cost about £2k. Throughout I was earning money and was fully exposed to the work place.

You only have to see the masked idiots(illegal by the way)at the front of the demos to work out they came hellbent on violence.The police have a very tough job at the best of times so i for 1 applaud them for showing such restraint in very trying circumstances.If you get 10,000+ protesters with some clearly just wanting to vent their anger your going to get casualties.When the police cuts come into force next year some of these scroats will be able to run riot over the country.Maybe then you will be happy + as for living in another country no thanks.Just because i said the police should be tougher obviously hit a sore point.I'll say it again.Name + shame the thugs who cause damage + as for that waster caught swinging on Churchills statue i'd jail him for 6mths whatever feeble excuses he came out with.

I've got a better idea for the scruffy lazy t**ts that thought it was fine to desecrate the cenotaph and Churchills statue, give them a choice 5years jail or join the army!.........spoilt brats, a disgrace to the country!

I guess that this was aimed at me.

1) In relation to the police cuts, I don't approve of those either.

2) The Scroats as you call them are our next generation. I will support future protests.

3) No sore point. I think that the police have a very difficult job acting as the Condems Boot boys.

4) I have no strong views about the protester who swung from the Churchill statue. It is hardly murder.

Well that view isn't productive in the slightest. It was stupid to stand on the cenotaph, that is foolish. But, the Churchill statue?? mild graffiti. Worse has been done on a Friday night in some town centres i would wager.

It is people with this view on students who are truly the disgrace. I don't understand how you can have such hatred for someone. I can understand why racists are the way they are, or misogynists. People are scared of what is different to them. But to blindly hate students is silly. I don't know any one with this much hate for postmen or bus drivers. Why against students. They all work hard and are functioning members of society. It is petty and i am embarrassed for those with that hatred.

Please refuse the services the medical student at the rally would offer you. It's just silly.

Also what would come of everyone joining the army? we'd have a massive standing army for no reason.

I'll take it rocket is not a reference to your brain! try reading my post again and show me where I mention students!

I thought as we were talking about students and the fact you mentioned Charlie Gilmour, a Cambridge student at a student protest (although you didn't mention his name) you were talking about students.

If i was wrong i apologise. Although, my first paragrapgh is still in keeping. The examples you mentioned are minor. Especially when you compare it to someone bleeding into the brain. Almost dying after police brutality > writing on statue.
Can you see the absurdity of what you are saying? one is life threatening, the other is a minor offence (must take 5 mins to clean)

Also, the rocket brain thing wasn't funny. Attack my argument not me. Even if you intend to do it in a laughable way. I wouldn't dare insult you for your hair brained view on social reform. I will call the reform hair brained though.

Police brutality! sorry I must of dreamt the protesters trying to ram the police with metal fences ( before any Gatling had taken place) also must of dreamt the various missiles that were thrown at the police. If you stand in front of an officer and try and hit them with a lump of concrete what do you expect that officer to do?

The police showed a lot of restraint when coming under attack, you may of noticed that a lot of the officers were WPCs, the protesters were hell bent on a riot and you can't defend them.

Desecrating the cenotaph is an insult to all those that gave their lives for the freedom those students now take for granted.

jdrocket I don't know you but my guess is your a ex student lefty do gooder that criticizes those whose job places them in arms way, but you haven't the bottle to do it yourself!

i'll give you half marks for the perception you have of me. Very uncanny.

No one will truly know what happened to instigate the conflict. As i have mentioned previously, the students went there to hold a peaceful protest. There is nothing that any cynicism of youth can say to refute that. There may have been people who went there to cause trouble (I think it is undoubtable) or there may have point a point where people ticked. But the end of the day. 1 Policeman fell off a horse. Multiple children and young adults were beaten by men with big sticks. No police men went to hospital. at least one almost died.

These are shocking facts. I admit that the cenotaph incident was a disgrace but we know that the idiot didn't know what he was doing. And when you compare the injuries some people sustained to the graffiti on Churchill's statue; it is small potatoes.

I think that the image the media has portrayed of the students is a very negative one. There was a minority causing trouble. Don't believe it? you need only look at the damage. a few broken windows, a man fell off a horse, no injuries to the media or the police. If this was as bad as people would like to think. Akin to riots on the street. Where were the burning cars, buildings, where was the attacks on people. The police were heavy handed. I suppose when you give a man a big stick and sheild and, most importantly, power. Some will take advantage. I think the police did a poor showing on the night. The tactics were wrong from the beginning( letting the students at the supreme court and treasury + the kettling) and they tried to claw it back with violence.

You should of watched it live on sky, the student organisers had agreed a route with the authorities but the plebs wearing the green helmets weren't happy about it and so decided to rip the metal barriers up and fire them at the police. The force helicopter captured it for all to see, no media portrayal but a sky eye view. The students or the UAF pillocks were hell bent on a riot and nothing would stop them.

Anybody who watched the live broadcast would of seen the missiles bouncing of the police helmets, we are not talking about riot police but police brought in on their rest days to cover the march, before you come back with "well they had helmets on" believe me the bobby's would have felt everything' like I've already said alot were WPCs. You talk about the police being heavy handed, you seriously are really clueless, the police could of dished out a pasting but didn't (politicians children on the march) you say a policeman fell off his horse, well lets have it right a mounted policeman's horse panicked under the amount of missiles it was being hit with and threw the rider. I've met pr**ks like you all my life, slag the police off all the time but first sign off trouble and you're straight on to them.

You say the idiot on the cenotaph didn't know what he was doing, he was studying history for gods sake he knew where the cenotaph was, maybe the large inscription THE GLORIOUS DEAD would be a give away! but no, people like you would sooner believe he made a mistake. In the words of one famous lefty MY ARES!

Let me guess your hatred of the police is down to the fact they've done you for speeding!

I don't see what this has to do with it. they knew what they are signing up for when they signed the contract. i am in no way condoning the violent action by anyone on the day but each police officer knew what the risks would be when they took the job.

I think this is a pretty sexist view if i'm honest. Should we go back to the 60s/70s when there were only male police officers, no, women want to be on the police force so let them, but do not use them as an excuse to make incidents look worse, i would find it pretty insulting if i was a woman. Your basically saying women aren't as good as men.

as for your view to students, i do find that very offensive, i am currently studying chemistry at northumbria, with the hope of becoming a high school chemistry teacher for your children/grandchildren/nephews/nieces.

Im working my backside off to get the best grade possible so i have the most practicable knowledge possible to pass onto the future generations.

please leave your bigoted comments and thoughts away from this forum as they are not necessary and do not add in any positive way to this topic.

Not had chance to read all the arguments put forwards here, but I'm a Law Student and I would happily pay £9,000 per annum for such a degree. The worrying thing is that from watching the news, most of the students that were interviewed in London didn't seem to understand what the new system actually means. The argument that poor families will be put off is stupid, as you won't pay back a penny until you are on a salary of £21,000. Furthermore you will pay less back per month, and there will be more grants for students from poor backgrounds.

I've noticed most of the protestors seem to be very middle class, where as most of the people at my uni accept it. I think that is due to having been bought up knowing that when you become an adult you live off your own back. HE Cuts forms 70% of the BSE department's budged deficit. Cuts frankly need to be made, and I hate to be associated with the prats in London.

Please tell me what is my view on students?

As for me being sexist, grow up son, I was mealy describing what I witnessed and I find it offensive when I see a thug with a metal bar targeting a WPC and giving her a crack with it. I have nothing but respect for those female officers.

You say you're studying chemistry, well good luck to you the country needs talented people teaching our children (I probably have this wrong but I thought sciences were unaffected with the changes to uni fees). I left school at 15 and have worked all my adult life paying my taxes so that talented people like yourself can attend uni, but please there is no need to thank me!

correct me if I'm wrong but this a public forum so different views should be welcome whether you agree with them or not.