I think that, on the whole, Waterhouse has been a goods signing and I cannot understand the vitriol that is hurled at him on this board. I only hope Simms gives us the same service.
I agree that Riley, to some extent, has suffered from having Atkins as his centre. He stands accused of overrunning the play and getting in front of the centre but that could also be a function of the centre delaying the pass too long. Atkins is a great athlete but he will never be world class because of his lack of distribution skills. Riley is accused of poor defence but the defence of our new star full back is a bit flakey IMO yet TS cannot wait to heap praise on him. TS has always seemed to have a downer on Riley to me. He obviously has seen something that I haven't but he is the coach and his judgement has been good up to now. Why he has persevered with Ormsby though I do not understand.

The difference is the expectation level. Danny Farrar was a seasoned pro with knee problems who was about as good as we could sign when we were down near the bottom of the league, and was a good player in that team. Waterhouse was one of the NRL's leading forwards and a full Australia international.

I think there is a great problem with expectations when international / SoO players are signed .. . they may be excellent when seen in these games but i doubt they play that way week in week out, & don't forget these players are coming to us at the end of their careers .

That said ,as far as i am concerned ,Trent has been a very good signing ,not spectacular but steadily consistent . Riley , i do feel sorry for, but his try scoring record speaks for itself .

Correct, it is ALL about expectation in my view.

I think Waterhouse has been average generally with an undoubted decent game, or two thrown in. Whilst he never let us down perhaps the biggest indication to me of his worth, is that all the Waterhouse fanatics, whilst accusing us doubters of not knowing what we are looking at, it's the subtle things blah de blah point to the same crowning glory at Saints in the Play Off's....one match.

BTW I thought he had a good game last Thursday and may yet play a big part in our end of season run in to sign off on a high particularly if we play Saints at Langtree Park, he seems to like it there...it's all about expectation after all.

I think it's a lack of appreciation for overall game and effect on the defence.

WE've seen this week people calling Simon Gillies as being gash, but if you look at the bigger picture, he played right second row for us, Toa was right centre and scored a shedload of tries, reason being defences were scared of Gillies and were doubling up on him, working him harder and therefore left more space for Toa and Scott Wilson (hah) to exploit.

Yeah people do state the saints play off game, mainly because he was unplayable and giving saints kittens that night, but he was fantastic from about halfway through that season after he bedded in and his offloads were integral to the way we played and ground our way up the table that year.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, people were disapointed as they were expecting a solomona/lauititi style crazy offloader. That was never the case.

The fact you've had people since saying we'd have been better off keeping landerson shows you how short term some bods memories are, cos he was getting called rotten after he announced his move and was being kept out the team, he was poor value for money and one dimensional.

Waterhouse may have been disppointing on the surface but overall his defence was excellent, he provided some good go-forward in attack, offloads could be pretty devastating, plus he was one of the best dummy-runners we've seen, creating gaps for his centre and others. First Wembley final against Leeds was a prime example of how much damage he did from this.

Chris Riley is a little unlucky to be, at the end of the day, a bit too small and not quite fast enough. As a finisher , though, he is still terrific, rarely dropped a pass even in very difficult circumstances, and could squeeze into the smallest of gaps, or cut inside/outside at the last moment, to score through a tight defence.

I think it's a sign of maturity and success for the club as a whole that we now see ten or twelve Wire-Academy produced players plying their trade with other clubs. We have to get used to it, as only a few from the Academy will ever be good enough for a top-of-the-table Wire first team.

Good luck to all the lads who are leaving especially chris Riley I have always thought he has his limitations but never gave us less than 100%. Waterhouse has been a good signing in my opinion, as said not so much an impact player but his all round game is good and he leaves as laithwaite has laid his claim to the spot for next season.

They do play that way week in week out in the NRL, otherwise they don't get picked. There is enough competition in the NRL that you only make the Kangaroos squad if you are a world class player that does the business every week.

As for coming at the end of their careers, Chris Hicks joined us at the end of his career. Brett Hodgson joined us at the end of his career. Michael Monaghan this season is in the last season of his career. If you sign the right players its not a problem, you get a player that's on top of his game because of years of accumulated experience, then if you sign some players they are past their best.

But I don't want to knock Waterhouse too much in me saying I was disappointed because he was not quite what I expected, because thats more a reflection on me than him. The frustrating thing is sometimes he was exactly what I expected, when he was in form he was a commanding figure, big, totally confident, he looked like if you had an 18 year old playing in an U15s team.

I agree with Cat on how people underrate Gillies, I never understood why it was fashionable to say Gillies was rubbish, he was a real handful and the players seemed to respect him as leader. For most of that 1999 season when he was captain we were punching well above our weight, maybe he paid the price in everyones memory for a bad end of season when the team just tailed off completely and we finished 7th having been in the top 5 mix most of the year.

That for me is the bottom line. Sometimes he ran the ball in hard and looked the part. Unfortunately this only happened a few times a season. The only thing you can put this down to is effort.

I must say Sally that, not having sky sports or otherwise ,i have never seen any domestic NRL games so, if like you say they play like that every week, no wonder they are quite good in internationals as well !

I wonder if the inspiration on fitness has waned since Morley left?
Are we seeing more injuries this season because these big men are not as fit?

only saying!

No mention of Kevin Penny leaving? Has an extension been announced? I thought he was on a 1 year deal

I've got it on very good authority from my contacts that the club have only just remembered they re-signed him

Smith was quoted in the Guardian saying the reason Riley's off is because he's only a year away from the end of his contract with us and got offered a longer deal elsewhere, yet Skysports are reporting this morning that he's only got a 1 year deal from Wakey...

Isn't that true then if we didn't offer him a deal at all?

The point being he's going to be out of contract at the end of next season whether he stayed or went, thought he'd have got more out of Wakey.

Can add Glenn Riley and Brad Dwyer to the outgoings, both off to London next season. Dwyer on loan, Riley on a permanent (I think).

Are they any good?
Have to admit I've not seen too much of either.

I have been wondering about this as well as the wording is a little ambiguous. But I think you are right, it says Dwyer is on a one year loan, but talks about Riley being 'transferred'. Then later on it mentions Smith monitoring their progress at London. I suppose if Riley is genuinely transferred on a one year contract with London we might still have the option of re-signing him at the end of 2015 ?

Riley is a big prop - I think he is 6'3 / 4", but he has not yet learned to use his size to the best advantage (footwork / angle of attack). However he has only just turned 22, so there is time for him to develop. Dwyer is the more promising of the two, he is a hooker that will take on the line and is pretty nippy around the ruck.

Dwyer is, slightly surprised we're letting him go as I would've thought we'd have him as back up to Higham and Clark. That said it'll be good for him to get some regular football.

Riley, well... he's never going to cut it at Super League level. He's a good lad, hard-working but he couldn't catch a cold. I think he'll find his level in the Championship but I can't see him going above that. Best of luck to him though. You might see him feature in the games we manage to stay in the playoffs for as we've got a ton of injuries in the pack.

The Leeds players we had this year - Foster, Minns and Duckworth - it was initally stated they were on loan but transpired they signed one year deals. I assume Brian Mac was able to evaluate them over the year and make a decision. It also enabled us to loan more players as they weren't counted so maybe Joey Grima has that in the back of his mind.

Glen Riley needs to stop skipping leg day at the gym, no leg drive and surprisingly easy to put down for such a big guy, and he is a big guy.
If Mickey Higham was Coca Cola then Dwyer would be diet coke, similar style of hooker not as good as MH but he's a young lad and a decent player, especially at the level he'll be at next year.