So play an even weaker centre when we've got decent 2nd rowers as backup? Makes no sense imo. And Joel hasn't looked that bad at centre, not as good as 2nd row, granted. But his winger has still scored a lot of tries this year. Hard to look good in defence when you've got Deacon 1 side, and Charnley the other as well.

On this years form (Again in my opinion) he hasn't been good enough for Wigan. Continuing with him in the side is influenced greatly by him being Sams brother. We all have opinions of players. Some of them will be different. It happens. I massively rate Liam Farrell for example but maybe some Wigan fans don't hold him in the same regard. Tom Makinson from Saints is another who I think could develop into a world class player. Some Saints fans may think that I am going overboard and that's fine. We're all different.

i just feel that it was a strange decision to bring a player into the team on a 1 year contract, at the expense of a young player who had been brilliant all season in a GF winning team..... there appeared to be no need to to do it.

i think he has lost a years development, in a position he could well have been key in.

no one is talking about joel as a 2nd rower for england in this years 4 nations international games.... and he could have been one of the first names on the teamsheet after another season playing 2nd row for wigan this season.

madge has cost joel his international place- fact

Because we didn't bring in Hoffman to replace Joel, Joel was lining up alongside Hoffman the first few games. Gleeson was our centre, Joel was a 2nd rower.

We were unfortunate to have to find a centre for practically the entire season, we aren't in a situation where we are likely to go out and buy a centre (maybe cos there really aren't that many about) and so went with a member of the first team who could cover that position (and to a pretty good standard).

As for his international place, I rate Joel. But I rate Ellis, Westwood, Heighington more. Whether he would have got in now that Lockers is injured, I'm not sure.

As for Farrell, I don't think he's had that great a season tbh, at least compared to last year. Runs fantastic lines, but just doesn't make a big enough impact in the tackle either in defence or attack, just seems to small. I also rate Makinson very highly though, long before tonight as well. Twice the player Foster is (who I think, as a winger, is appalling).

TS, Joel is a key player in our side. As a second rower. I think myself and most other Wigan fans would have been concerned were he carrying on in the centres next season, one way or another though, I don't think that will be the case.

has madge cost JT his place in the england side?

be honest now.... none of this politics stuff.

Well you've seen Farrell more than me but I hope that he continues to improve. 1st Class pedigree for sure. As for Makinson, he started to impress me long before tonight too. And for Foster, well the jury's still out for me although his defence has to improve on his showings this season.

Madge hasn't, Gleeson and circumstance has. Genuine answer. I think every coach would have done the same in that position.

Well, the period in the first half of the year where Farrell was dropped for a few games, despite having decent games, was apparently because he just wasn't making a big enough impact in the tackle. He often got driven back in the tackle both in attack and defence, you notice it once it's been pointed out.

It's like when King played 2nd row for a few games for you guys, best winger in the league this season, but because you had decent wingers to cover, but no second rowers, he moved positions reducing his effectiveness. We just had to do that over a much longer period.

you f*cking liar

we both know that joel would be right up there in the second rowers for this 4 nations had he had a full season in the 2nd row.

disappointed in you IM...... just admit madge f*cked him up......everyone knows he did.... its ok... he has left now

its nothing like that.... he is a centre anyway



AND he was the best player on the pitch in the 2nd row....AND on the wing... AND in the centre

apart from when we were booing him obviously.

Very grown up post.

FIOS

nice avatar obsessed boy.

It's exactly like that?

are you really trying to liken matt king to joel tomkins?

No, I'm trying to liken the scenarios which forced a coach to play someone out of position.

behave... king played one game in the second row..... joel played a full season in the centre.

i will ask you again.... do you think joel has lost his place in the england team because of how madge has selected him for wigan?

Yes, but I dont blame Madge one bit for it. I think most coaches would have done exactly the same.

I thought King played a few games in the 2nd row this year? If not then my comparison doesn't really fit! haha.

2 games max.... and they were probably his best games



thats what i was getting at..... as good as hoffman has been... joel was moved out of his best position and his career has suffered as a result..... he would probably be playing for england in this up and coming four nations..... but now he isnt..... all because madge moved him aside to accommodate someone on a 1 year contract..... we will play australia and new Zealand and joel wont play.... because he got moved aside for hoffman... who probably wasn't as good as him anyway.

Has this board reached a new low?

FIOS

nice to see you have a well structured debate going on..... again

Would he be a loss to RL? Yeah, I guess so. In a sort of Hefin O'Hare way.

Now your here, possibly

what do you think about joels tomkins fall from grace in regards the international stage?