Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left.

Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left.

As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year.

I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.

Quote ="jonh"Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left. Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left. As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year. I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.'" King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?

Quote ="jonh"Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left. Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left. As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year. I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.'" King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?

Yes I agree. I am hoping we will see a big change under Burgess. I am also painfully aware I was hoping the same thing two years ago with Powell.

All will be revealed.

Quote ="Alffi_7"King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?'" Covered this when you lot were all slating him. Looked back over his highlights reel and nearly all of his plays came on the right. He was and still is a right centre.

Quote ="Alffi_7"King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?'" Covered this when you lot were all slating him. Looked back over his highlights reel and nearly all of his plays came on the right. He was and still is a right centre.

This quote would appear to completely negate your argument that it was Warrington moving him to the left that caused the loss of form.

Look at his form right to left.

He’s a right centre.

I watched him as a junior enough to know that before his move to the pro game.

Look at his highlights reel and tell me where his best form is. Done to death when you lot were telling me he was terrible pick up for Wigan when he signed…whilst also telling me Wigan hadn’t signed Wardle before he joined Wire and you might be able to retain him…which he had and you couldn’t despite what Powell was saying.

Go find the thread. Not going through it all again.

you were wrong then and you're wrong now, last season not withstanding

You appear to be blissfully unaware that you are forwarding an argument where you state that you know better which side he prefers to play on than the player himself. You put forward an argument that attempted to pin point his move to left centre as to the drop in form. Despite the fact he was given his lucrative contract whilst playing left centre. I feel this discussion has reached the end. Most sensible people would accept that, on balance, the player probably knows himself which his preferred side.

For the avoidance of doubt I made no point in relation to Wardle, or Powell, or highlight reels in my statement, that's just noise you belatedly drew into your ever weakening argument.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

Players say things, doesn’t mean they are true if it suits the moment.

Powell saying Wardle could be retained…he couldn’t.

Smithies saying it’s just rumours he’s going to NRL, it isn’t.

Cooper and King being the issue at Wire…they weren’t.

Interesting what an agenda can influence.

So your argument has developed on to King being purposefully deceitful in the Warrington Guardian article now to suit an, as yet, undisclosed hidden agenda?

Deceitful or just going with the narrative as he had been moved to the left.

Scored more tries, assisted more tries and got an England Knights call in 2019 on the right. Got another England full call in 2023.

Played in World Cup for Ireland on the right.

In fact his stats were also better in 2018 than they were in 2020.

His stats are back up to those levels in 2023, must be a coincidence he is back on the right.

Definitely a left centre……

The reason he shifted I’m guessing was to accommodate Gelling who was a right side secondrow who transitioned to centre and was even more dominant right edge than King.

In conclusion he's bog average on one side of the field and, at best, slightly above average on t'other.

I've nothing against King, he does a job but that job for me is not what I wistfully want from a centre.....still he brings the ball away from the line strongly, I'll look forward to watching that in awe next season.

In isolation that’s not great reading, 12.7% miss rate. But, compared to other centres, it’s actually impressive: Wardle does better at 10.65%, Lafai similar at 12.55%. If you then look at Keighran 25.5%, Newman 22.79%, Kenny Dowall 21.96, Marsters 24.13%, Percival 21.07% he’s head and shoulders clear.

The choice of Wardle vs King is gone. We had both in the palm of our hands and we completely messed it up to the absolute maximum effect. They both went on to win the league in the exact same year where we have had the least attacking threat in the centres since Roper and Eagar.

The ability of Wigans centres and wingers to carry the ball out of our own half is one of the key attributes as to why we have had a successful season.

King contribution may not thrill you but it goes a long way towards helping you win games.

Oh I agree and it's just a damning of indictment of where we are as a game over here.

This seems a bizarre argument, his best form for Warrington came as a left sided centre in 2021 from which he got his latest contract, you can google Toby King 2021 and see a lovely highlight reel of him playing as a left sided centre, no international recognition that year - given there was no international RL. His form dropped in 2022 for other reasons, maybe some complacency after signing a new deal, more likely how he perceived he was being treated by Powell but certainly not from playing on the left, given he was 2 & 1/2 years in at that point and he's stated he played there for the academy and was his favoured side.

He clearly is a good centre on either side of the field and is far better than any centre we had in 2023. He's had plenty of time at left and right centre, but that isn't the point you are arguing, you are saying his form dipped when we moved him to the left, which is untrue, he had a good 2020 and a very good 2021....

Had he been on a wage relative to his quality I would be delighted to have him back, unfortunately we overpaid which means we are tied to having him as a marquee, for that reason I don't think he is value for money - irrespective of me thinking he is a good player.

I asked earlier, would you have him back at Wigan on marquee wages, so having to drop one of your higher paid players to accommodate him, French or Field for example?

Of course they were an issue. If you're disrespecting the coach then you're obviously an issue.

pointless argument some people will be happy being entertained but not winning !!

Respect works both ways.

All the stats indicate he plays better on the right.

He only moved to the left when you signed an out and out right sided player in Gelling.

Square pegs round holes.

It isn’t his fault you guys threw silly money at him.

If it came down to it I’d have retained King but that was never an option just like Wardle signing for Wire was never an option.

If you throw in the effect signing King would have on our ability to build a squad looking to go back to back then it’s Wardle as we need Thompson to replace Smithies whilst retaining French and Field.

The question I can answer is out of King and Wardle who has been more effective in 2023 and in my opinion King has been the most influential signing of the two in 2023.

Us Wire fans have not experienced either recently.

This is all a moot argument anyway. It appears he is coming back. Some people rave about him, some don't. Post contract he stunk the place out with us and had disciplinary issues before we sent him to Huddersfield, since then he has made thinly veiled jibes about his time at Warrington. What is it that you to read?

They had a point though, really.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but looking back at the Powell spell it’s a train wreck. Todays England squad announcement is evidence enough of that, he got rid of Hill, King, Mulhearn and allowed Clark to leave. All of them in the squad. Mulhearn aside, there’s no surprise that they are in there. And Charnley can count himself unlucky, and Cooper was in last year but not available through injury this time around.

5 of 24 are in our 2024 squad, 3 are ex-Warrington players. One third of the squad is/was at Powell’s disposal, and served up the worst two years of results in 20 years.

How many of those players you cite were in the the wire sides that bombed out of the playoffs 3 years running?

Powell ultimately failed but he knew a comfort zone when he saw one.

I just hope King hasn't been pulling his tripe in the faint hope of a contract at Wigan. The proof of his effort & commitment, or lack off , will shine in the 2024 season.