Gary, the point has to be, would this article have come out if we had won the grand final at Old Trafford ?

I'd have put money on it that it wouldn't have, i understand his points but their were far better ways to go about making his feelings felt rather than a public outburst that just comes across as sour grapes.

Alternatively if Warrington hadn't won the league the article would not have been written because he wouldn't have known how shoddy the trophy was - until you actually handle it close up you don't realise just how poor it is.
A lot of older fans have thought for a long time that the league title has been undervalued.
As one of our readers has pointed out on our own forum - it is all about SKY TV and making money now - not recognising the best team over a whole season.
SKY TV don't make a big song and dance about the Challenge Cup because they don't have the TV rights - yet to a lot of supporters going to Wembley and winning the Challenge Cup is right up there for being a great occasion, a top trophy and a big money spinner for clubs.
Just imagine if the club which had finished 8th and lost nearly half of their games in a full season had gone on to win the Grand Final - suddenly a mediocre team that just has the rub of the green or hits form at the right time is crowned Champions.
It is difficult for any team these days to win back to back trophies - look at Warrington and Wigan after their recent Wembley triumphs - wheels come off and play off campaign de-railed.
The only true way of deciding the true champions is based on league results over a full season - so that should be the biggest reward.

Warrington won the league title weeks ago - one could consider that the article is based on trying to get the Rugby League to give more clout to the competition in time for next season.
If the noises are not made now nothing will change.
I know for a fact that the Rugby League and its member clubs are looking at the situation and considering options - so now is bang on the right time to make noises.

Your living 15 years a go mate! And no chance whatsoever Grand Final will be scrapped... These are the same teams that voted for an 8 team playoffs too remember!

Yes, let's try and imagine the 8th placed team winning, as that's all it would be, imagination. This year is only the second time the first placed team in the league hasn't made the final - it's just our tough poop that it was us for once.
The back to back trophies thing I now firmly believe to be a red herring - Leeds were unfortunate not to win at Wembley, and it would be difficult to argue that they somehow had an easier game in the final than Wigan. If Leeds had won the CC, would they have suddenly become incapable of winning the GF...?

And you can't read. What Gary is saying is that the RFL are looking at more recognition for the team who finish top of the pile at the end of the normal season.

That's in the article... He was seemingly making out to be / know more.
As I also elude too won't ditch Grand Final so won't really make a difference anyway.

This isn't a sleeping giant, it's a giant! Denis Betts Nov 2010

Arf

He wasn't. Could you please put the second line of your post into English, I can't understand it.

If he thinks the league leaders' shield is a disgrace what about the Ashes?

This is what England got for winning a 5 Test series of 5 day cricket in Australia the toughest environment to win cricket in the world:



And this is what India get for winning a bit of a one day slog competition:



It's about time that proper recognition is given to the winners of the Ashes with a proper competition (nb I didn't care about this all those years the Aussies were winning)

Ok so all he 'knew for a fact' was what we could all read.

Simply what he seem's to be after is the title being given to the league leaders, that will never happen.

Some of thoughts are valid, but the timing and the fact it comes from an obviously biased source make it come across as simply sour grapes.

Yes the format should be changed so that 1st has a better advantage. The fact wire didn't make it after winning the league is not a good enough reason for that though; which is how the article comes across.

The only way you could make it easier would be direct entry to semi or even Grand Final but then you'd gave to drastically cut playoff numbers to save having 3/4 weeks off!

Without wanting to drag this out further, I'd like to make a few comments too:

I'm assuming that Gary Skentelbery is member of the Chamber of Commerce, and according to their website handles "PR" for them. I'll assume that Colin Daniels just happened to make this statement and it was picked up by Warrington Worldwide and not engineered in any manner by either parties. Is this the same Colin Daniels that wanted a ban on kissing on the platform of Bank Quay Station?

I'll also assume that in the original post when Garys states:


That "all feedback" includes those that don't agree with himself and Colin Daniels? And that its also not a reason to promote warrington worldwide and its website?

On with the comments:


I don't think they are, they understand, they just don't agree with you.



A noble sentiment, they should also be given a large cheque and freedom of the town and lots of free goodies. I'd quite like those things too.


So the views don't represent the fans or the club but you want to pass all feedback through the chamber of commerce to the RFL? Can we see that before its sent and you represent other peoples views?


Expressing his view through the chamber of commerce PR or warrington worldwide? Some people wanted an open top bus parade for the players, some people wanted the sheild presented at Hull all valid views but not practical or cost effective, unless the chamber of commerce want to pay for it?


A knockout competition like, say the Challenge Cup?


A good point, when would be a good time to raise the issue? And not make it look like self promotion? Or sour grapes? Or childish whining?



Where does he say that? He doesn't like club call, not heard him say anything about the play-offs?


People didn't want to pay to the see the game, they watched it on Sky instead and saved their money for a week later. Maybe you could give them some advice on how you fill cantilever park every week?



So you're doing it for the players then? Its all about them?


Sticky wicket with that one and how your went about it, you didn't make many friends at the club or with the past players for your "altruistic" actions.

Pretty much I think it comes down to poor "journalism" coupled with self promotion and you're being called on it.

Lock it..........

Man's got a point, although we could could create a whole new trophy, a massive one even, to present to the League Leaders, but it wouldn't change anything in my opinion. Because it's still second best no matter what we do.

Personally, I've no problem with Leeds taking the SL crown as they did it by adhering to the current SL playoff format, and playing very well in the process. So that's fine. But the stature of the LLS etc does need revising.

Let's face it, the LLS in itself is poor. For it to be referred to as a 'hub cap' just about sums it up. So maybe - and this is [ijust[/i an idea - they should scrap the trophy altogether and just offer a decent/improved cash injection into the club that finishes top, plus a revised and more beneficial route to the Grand Final? Because it seems that each time I've watched the LLS presentations over the years, whether it be Saints or whoever, it has felt rather uninspiring to me. And the reason for this is that, subconsciously, we all realise that the LLS is massively inferior to the end prize.

Having said all this, please don't get me wrong everyone because I was immensely proud of the fact that we were the most consistent and entertaining team of 2011. It was a great year to be a Wire! Its just that for me, somehow the dissapointment of being knocked out in the semi final, annoyingly, outweighed the jubilation of receiving the LLS.

It's a very valid point. I hate the playoff system. A competition that can be won in 3 games carrying more prestige than a comp that takes 27 rounds, ludicrous imo. I don't buy this argument of we all know how it works before the season starts, prior knowledge doesn't make something wrong or right. Makes the sport a mockery that a team finishes top 13 points behind 3rd place team.

Oh yes cause I remember you saying the same things last year....oh wait

First of all I do think the LLS trophy is not as good as the one that Leeds won in 66-67 67-68 68-69 69-70 71-72 ,it was a proper looking classy trophy and I didnt know the players did not get a medal either.We knew in that period that we had the best ,most exciting team in the league ,without a doubt ,but we also knew that was how the championship was decided and in that era we also won two championship finals.I acknowledge at that time the CC cup had more "GLAMOUR" than the championship ,but what I am saying is be patient .I am a big admirer of Tony Smith and I think he would have been uncomfortable with the LLS celebrations this season.Last time Leeds won the shield was in 2009 at Salford and the celebrations was very muted Sinfield ,who didnt play that night by the way just came on received the trophy posed with the team for a few fans pics then went to the sheds.Bluey said before hand "we have got the lid now lets get the main part,but it wont mean a thing unless we win the GF".Look at the times Saints could have won the double?.be patient you will get there .

If you're a fan and you deem the play-offs to be the greater achievement of the two, you should really consider your basic ability to weigh up achievements.

The league is evidently the greater challenge and the more momentous task that takes far more of everything to win, the only problem is; Sky don't promote it like that. We can never change the way Sky promote their programs, it's the way it will always be, but we, as fans, should use our brains and deem the league the greater achievement instead of wasting time debating the two.

It's like in football, the league is, as they say, the bread and butter, everything else comes after the league.

It would be interesting to ask fans/managers/players at United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool whether they would rather win the knock out Champions League, or the Premiership?

Possibly some Liverpool fans would say the Premiership because they haven't won the league for a long time but even there, most of the time Liverpool fans go on about their history, they aren't talking about the league titles they won, it's their 5 Champions League titles.

and yet in the nhl, nrl, NBA,NFL the play offs are the most important. Cos thats the big thing to win,

Because marketing men have told them that.As Roddy b has pointed out, the harder the task the greater the achievement.

Just look it up, been my long held belief. Just being talked about more on the warrington board this year.

Were any of those calling for a change to the system and feeling hard done to doing any of this when Warrington brought in Andrew Johns in order to win a play offs from sixth? Would any of you feel somehow unworthy had you won the play offs in any of the previous seasons where you didn't finish top but competed in them?

Look, you all know the rules, and this is sour grapes. To come out with this now after competing for so long in the play offs is just sad. I'm glad to see a few of you admitting that this is poor form. The system has been in place for years now and they provide a sport like rugby league with a sorely needed huge day out every season.