Thought Atkins was awful again. Was good to see Harrison go well on his debut. Though your guy Westwood was in the top 3 today for us.

Am I the only person who thinks the criticism of the officials is OTT? I can only think of one decision that stands out as shockingly poor.

I wish some people would use their eyes and not their ears when watching to Sky Sports sometimes.

Looks like Atkins has alot of improving to do on the international scene. The most notible difference for me was in super league, Atkins has great leg drive and can break through tackles and get good metres forward. But against New Zealand and Australia he was struggling to do this.

Maybe it is OTT, but there is certainly far more than just one decision that was poor. The forward pass, the tap by Cam Smith, countless times in the ruck. He was far from consistant for both teams. But having said that it was our error count that killed us, we just kept gifting them possession.

thing is Atkins can knock on on his own line against any team he likes in Superleague on his own line, and the Wire defence will keep most teams out most of the time.....unfortunately time and time again we are shocked that gifting australia posession in this area leads to a try......
even
didnt matter that it was Atkins knocking on The Aussies would have still scored even if it was gleeson paul newlove or Jonathan davies at centre......

I think everyone was in agreement before a ball was passed that our back line was poor.......why single out Atkins....

or was it something to do with the fact that the messiah sam tomkins was ordinary as feck at both stand off and full back and a different scapegoat was needed.


on the cheating thing i was sickened long before eddie hemmings piped up after that ridiculous forward pass...so its either time to take the tests seriously and get some proper un biased referees or we may as well scrap international rugby league before it ends up like voting in the eurovision song contest

First post, so hello to everyone!

Not having the benefit of Sky, had to do with the highlights(?) on the beeb.

And I have to say the refereeing left a lot to be desired. England set off at a cracking pace, but couldn't seem to sustain it. Australia capitalised on every mistake.

Neil

Well your singling out Tomkins, is that because he plays for Wigan???



Seriously though, no player needs to be singled out as many of them have been poor. Atkins deserves his criticism as do many other England players, Tomkins included.

Lets not make excuses for this shambles.Not one player in the england team did them selfs any justice.It just shows how much the Sky team big up super league players.To make us believe theY are world class,but when it comes down to them proving it.They get found wanting time and time again.

Quote ="Bondi_Warrior"Well your singling out Tomkins, is that because he plays for Wigan??? '" Apparently Wigan are the answqer to beating the Aussies: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=475446 deluded.

Quote ="Bondi_Warrior"Well your singling out Tomkins, is that because he plays for Wigan??? '" Apparently Wigan are the answqer to beating the Aussies: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=475446 deluded.

We will never beat Australia with an England Squad, we need to revert back to Great Britain. With the injuries we had Briers would have done a lot better.
Why did they drop Widdop ?
Where was Ryan Hall ?

Officiating of todays game - poor,biased and disgraceful, and yes I did watch it and couldnt help feeling we had NO chance, as even if we looked like getting close, the Ref and or VR could be relied on to ensure their precious 'Green & Gold' were helped all they could.
Some of the decisions were SO bad it was laughable and frankly brings into question the viability of Internationals with non neutral officials.
If we ever have to play Aus in Aus again, I say we grow some, and tell them that without a neutral - get stuffed, the lets see how the International scene develops then....

We can`t blaim refs decisions, end of the day we havn`t got a strong enough squad. As i said scrap the england team.

I actually did laugh uncontrollably at just how far forward that pass was. It was even funnier knowing that we got pulled back for something that was 50/50 ( in fact more like 60/40 in favour of backwards) and then I realized that I what i was laughing at and stopped very suddenly.

It was a disgrace

because he was the worst of the back line....again.

Like one of the abpve posters have said, against SL etams Wire can make up for his mistakes, at this level no team can. It wasnt an anti-wire post so no need to throw the toys out of the pram

He was awful last week but Cudjoe was worse today as was S. Tomkins.

Again it would be ahrd to single out bad players. It is easier to say who did well.

Robinson
Graham
Westwood
Roby
were all great.

Looking back at last year's Tri Nations game versus the Aussies, Steve Ganson reffed and I'm sure that we insisted on his appointment against the wishes of the Australian management...

I'm not going to get in a huff, i just don't care enough but even if the ref is substandard they should still be a neutral. You're telling me the best New Zealand has to offer couldn't have done a decent job ?
Yet another reason why international rugby is a joke and why i still can't be fooked with it.

I wouldn't say that great is a suitable choice of word, no England player has been great throughout the whole tournament.

The above did ok in another poor England performance, a very weakened aussie side didn't even come out of 2nd gear and still managed to cruise past us with very little drama.

This so called pack of ours that could apparently match the aussies have been totally outplayed in this tournament, a few of them have shown a bit of grit and have been fairly solid but thats about it.

Were light years behind the Australians in technical ability, skill and power and were also well behind the Kiwis when they manage to turn up with a strong looking squad.

The only way you would have an international tournament that would get the sponsors queing up to throw money at RL along with it being a better spectacle is to have a tri nations tournament that consists of Australia, New Zealand and a Rest Of The World team to be made up from other nations like England, Samoa and Tonga etc

It could even be a SL based team where its a mixture of kiwis, aussies and the best of our english players and call it an Anzac type team.

I could get behind that scheme. Suggest it to the Rfl

Would this England team have gone any better?

1. Tomkins
2. Hall
3. Gleeson
4. Shenton
5. Smith
6. McGuire
7. Eastmond
8. Peacock
9. Sinfield
10. Graham
11. Ellis
12. Burgess
13. Westwood

14. Morley
15. Roby
16. O'Loughlin
17. Crabtree

One thing that was blatantly clear yesterday was the inability of anyone in the England side to push the team around the park. Roby is many things, a starting hooker will never be one of them - he can create impact around the ruck, but he does not put the ball into the hands of the forwards quickly & accurately enough to warrant a place on the field in the first twenty minutes. The Aussies were cam & composed even when England made 70 metres driving from the kick off from Burgess' try. They took their chances when presnted and were clinical in execution, regardless of assistance or otherwise from the ref.

Injuries affected England's opportunity to be competitive in this tournament - there are players on that tour who are nowhere near international level. One thing they have all shown in two tests though which has been lacking in recent years is spirit, they can't be faulted for the effort they put in even though their ability was lacking...

Quote ="magic piano"One thing that was blatantly clear yesterday was the inability of anyone in the England side to push the team around the park. '" Which is a point i made before the tournament started on the England thread along with England lacking a tactical kicker. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=474705&p=15627037#p15627037 Quote ="Rob Wire"Whose the little general in that side whose going to take us round the pitch, i see no natural organiser in that side and no decent tactical kicker.'" I don't think it would have mattered what team England had put out, even with everyone fit the result would have been similar. A weakened Australia side seemed to play within themselves with the extra gears if required, even with everyone fit England still have no little general and we certainly don't have a tactical kicker in the mould of Lee Briers.

Quote ="magic piano"One thing that was blatantly clear yesterday was the inability of anyone in the England side to push the team around the park. '" Which is a point i made before the tournament started on the England thread along with England lacking a tactical kicker. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=474705&p=15627037#p15627037 Quote ="Rob Wire"Whose the little general in that side whose going to take us round the pitch, i see no natural organiser in that side and no decent tactical kicker.'" I don't think it would have mattered what team England had put out, even with everyone fit the result would have been similar. A weakened Australia side seemed to play within themselves with the extra gears if required, even with everyone fit England still have no little general and we certainly don't have a tactical kicker in the mould of Lee Briers.

The Aussies are use to executing plays under pressure for 80 minutes a game week after week. In Super League top teams and top players probably play under that pressure for 50 minutes of a game 4 or 5 times a year.

There is nothing wrong with the natural talent of young English players (I bet the series with the Aussie Schoolboys next month is close) however top players have it too easy for far too many games a year. Sally C has been harping on about reducing Super League to ten teams and that would certainly help address this situation. Beyond that for me the RFL should consider centrally contracting a certain number of players in their early twenties and finding them contracts in the NRL.

just my twopenneth

Biased reffing....not really. they were 50/50 calls, so they were ALWAYS going to be given (benefit of the doubt etc), forward pass tries happen EVERY game, let's not delude orselves

Great Britain/England....come on...who's currently been playing for Wales/Scotland/Ireland, in their watered down 4 nations, that could seriously be picked if Great Britain currently existed...NO-ONE.

Our backs are just good Super League players-they are NOT test match quality

We currently don't have a kicking game in open play (either attacking the opponents line, or clearing from our own half) ABSOLUTELY EMBARRASING

Gareth Ellis....the Emperer's New Clothes at international level. Has he ever carried forward his Super League/NRL form to Test Matches?

Yet another test match we've played in the last 15 years, where a loose forward has played at stand off, and it's not worked. How many more times.

In 2 years time, Morley will have retired and Peacock's international career will be nearing an end....who will replace them?

Worrying times ahead, I feel, for England Rugby League. The World Cup in 3 years time maybe as embarrasing as 2008's

Firstly, who came up with the fixture list for the tournament. Leaving the England v PNG and Australia v Kiwis games to the last round was always almost certain to leave a meaningless games before the final (unless that WAS the intention!)

Secondly I accept that we should play as England when at home, or in World Cups, but surely when playing down under it would be better to play as GB. I am not for one second saying that with his inclusion we would have beaten the Kiwis or the Aussies, but even at this stage in his career Lee Briers would have offered so much more at Stand Off than either Brown or O'Laughin. If nothing else we would have had a kicking game. On that point, have England/GB ever gone into a test series or competition with a worse set of possible halfback combinations?

Thirdly for the international game to be taken at all seriously there has to be neutral officials. I am not for one second suggesting that Archer or the video ref (whose name escapes me) were biased, but when they make seemingly obvious errors in their own sides favour it inevitabley brings their impartiality into question.

And finally, I think TittyLip should have 'legally' knocked Cameron Smith into the middle of next week.

Widdop had to fall on his sword to allow Tomkins to move to fullback, just looked at the stats and Widdop had the most carries from both teams, 17 carries for 95 m, 27 receives and 4 tackle breaks and the 1 dropped bomb (so if dropped bombs and knock ons are the basis of being dropped we are going to be short handed this week against PNG!!!!), IMO not bad stats in anyones books, (Politics would not allow Widdop to displace Tomkins), Robinson had to be brought in because Tomkins showed nothing at 7 against the Kiwis. IMO Tomkins will not do anything at fullback at this level, he got rag dolled at fullback like he has at times this year at Wigan, and his positional play in defence against the Aussies was very poor as he did not read the plays well. Looking at the player stats Widdop has about 2 stone on Tomkins and it shows when you look at the contact, one thing with Widdop when you watch him play is he nearly always finds his front for a quicker play the ball and Tomkins ends up in an heap.
Tomkins is a great illusive player in broken play, but broken play is not commonly found in International league and he was found out at the weekend. I would have Tomkins at 6 where he will find a little more space to use his jinking style and pace, Robinson at 7 where he plays best and leave Widdop out the back where he belongs. The outside backs just need to learn about line speed off our own line in defence and learn to run correct lines off the halves.

What do we think the team will be this week? Because the mix against the Aussies was all wrong.