I'm looking for an improvement in performance and good signs that the attitude has changed. Leeds were descent last year and much improved so I'm not expecting a win in our opening game, just good signs that things are changing. I think it's a lot to expect for us to immediately gel, and we'd need to be cohesive to beat a descent Leeds side who'll expect to improve further from last season under Smith.

We definitely need good signs, but we need to be realistic and respect the opposition too.

Looking at the season as a whole we NEED to finish top 4.
This is totally DPs team now and there can be no excuses.
Most teams will be a little rusty because of incoming players / the break (except maybe Saints who have made few changes, except for Wellens and he's immersed in the previous coaches methodology, so should be no real issue).
Even if we have a so-so start what I really want to see is desire in every game.
The forwards should be dominating so that should be a decent platform. We've decent halves and although there is criticism of the backs, I am looking forward to seeing Ashton and Duffy in particular.

I'm glad we're on a break. After the World Cup I need some down time.

Given how last season went... and how many perceived the way the clear out was handled, its hard to see how Powell can last long if the team isn't playing well out the gate.

rubbish start - sacked
mediocre start - sacked
good start - keeps job.... but even after that, any perceived fall off in form will be jumped on.

Going to be an uphill battle for him this season.

Yes it comes with the job. If you accept a job at a prominent club with expectations, great facilities, full cap spend and you are well backed in the transfer market then you are going to be expected to deliver. Especially if you have already had a season there.

Agree with this, but a realistic timescale has to be factored in. You expect us to win the first 4 including Leeds first game, otherwise we're not on track, as you've just posted. Are you expecting all our newcomers to gel first game, because that's what'll be required if we are planning to turnover an already well drilled, well financed side who performed markedly better than us and most other sides last season. I'm hoping we will and wouldn't be surprised if we did as it'll be the first game of the season for Leeds as well and they may be a bit rusty. We'll be rusty and it'll be the first proper game many of our players will have played together in, so I reckon Leeds will go in as firm favourites.

We have to remember too that we've been chucking more money than anyone else for nearly 20 years and still haven't won it - that tells me we've needed a culture change/reset for a long time now, since Smith came in when we did get close. The cost of an upheaval such as this is that it'll take time for things to fully assimilate.

Come the end of the season there will be no excuses, but let's judge things over time as the season progresses and not make hasty/rash decisions. Aside from anything else, how pointless would it be to sack the coach, early doors, who has rebuilt the squad to suit his style of play. Last season was poor, but it was going to be in all probability given the number of changes, and players brassed off with having to attend training sessions fully.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Yes fingers crossed. I am not expecting anything. It's pointless with Warrington. They always surprise.

But I am frustrated at the excuse culture we build in. Other teams have new players, other teams have new coaches, all teams have a pre-season and friendly games.

For example. We have made 6 new signings for 2023 (including Russell).

Castleford have made 6, Catalan have made 6, Hudds have made 9, Hull FC have made 5, Hull KR 7, Leeds 8, Leigh 12, Salford 6, Saints 2, Wakefield 3, Wigan 2.

Powell needs to be showing he has got what it takes sooner rather than later. I am interested in what time frame you would base your decision on?

I think there must be a sign up in the Warrington dressing room ,a very old sign ,that says "It isn't the winning it's the taking part " . The club seems to have a stock in trade of phrases to wheel out at the start of every season to excuse the relevant season's shortcomings. Perhaps a positive mental attitude would be a start & a realisation that most teams start the season with changes to overcome. Just deal with it .

Exactly. And who can blame the club when this attitude is so prevalent in the fan base?

Since the glory days in the 50's until 2004 Warrington had no reasonable expectation of winning the league title as we were outgunned financially, often struggling to survive with poor facilities and crumbling infrastructure. Sure we had a few close runs but that was well against the odds.

Since 2004 there has been absolutely no excuse for not doing so. That's 18 years full of "give the coach time", "time to gel", "bad eggs", "give youth a chance", "the hub cap is a major trophy" etc etc. It's embarrassing.

Sorry 9A and W71 but I disagree. The idea that professional sportsmen of the calibre of eg Morley and Monaghan senior to name but 2 would be content with just taking part doesn’t hold water. All sorts of factors play a part in success on the sports field and not all of them are in your hands, injuries, luck (and no I don’t agree that you make your own luck) a 50/50 call by the ref to name just a few.
As for the fans acceptance of mediocrity…who in their right minds would want their team to be mediocre? Defies belief.

In all honesty though ,since the early days of Smith ,there has been a gradual but steadily accelerating decline in the on field success . We had some good players ,declining Aussies who looked good over here but at least they put the effort in. The last remnants of the forwards of those days ,Hill & Cooper ,have now gone & we have to be hopeful that our new set of forwards can do the biz on the field & the backs can thrive off their go forward. Another season like last will be disastrous for the club as the walk in spectators need to be attracted back to the terraces.

Fair enough. We all have our opinions. In all interest how would you explain 18 years of Warrington failing to win a league title (stated aim of the club) when they have an equal salary cap with those teams that have won multiple titles during the same period?

My explanation would be we only had the team and coach combination to do it for 2/3 of those years and there was a bit of bad luck in one GF. Rest of the time we have been miles off.

In my opinion making excuses for failure is endemic at our club.

Yes I have just made that point (crossed with yours). We have only had the right team and coach to win a title in 2/3 years of the last 18. I would say 2011/12/13.

Basically the Venn diagram years of Tony Smith / Briers / Great Pack

After placing Saints and Wigan as 1 and 2 (boring, but predictable) its difficult to answer. Last year, I was disappointed that we did not make the playoffs given the squad we started the season with. This year, I need convincing that Powell is part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. We cannot have another revolving door of a season. In 2023 we need one of continuity, that at least builds something that is going in the right direction. Trying to anticipate where we'll finish in the table, I'd guess at somewhere between 7th and 4th, and would not be disgruntled if we were better over the second half of the season than the first. Last season we won the first three games, but our performances were not good enough, which told as the season panned out. If we can get the correct consistent level of performance, especially in defence, then results should start to look after themselves.

I think ,which ever way we try & justify what happened last season ,whether players or management , 11th place really was a knee in the nuts of the paying fan . It really was taking the mick & will take some erasing from the memory. Effort from the the first to the last minute of games needs to be the order of the day ,just like all successful teams are capable of doing.

KP mentions they have held a "review" of the season. I wish the club would share the key findings and recommendations.

So what does a man ... who hasn't visited the club for a while and apparently (so you said) doesn't watch many games on TV suggest we do? We are eager to learn.

Some 'interesting' yet old hat debate but a bit of thread stretch rather than drift so here's my simpleton twopenneth

1. St Helens
2. Wigan
3. Leeds
4. Huddersfield
5. Warrington
6. Hull FC
7. Salford
8. Catalans
9. Castleford
10.Leigh
11. Wakefield
12.Hull KR

I think the jury will still be out (depending upon your KPI) uplift in performance but no silverware (I hope I'm wrong btw in the case of silverware)

My opinion is that it has in large part come down to our recruitment. This is not a dig at KF. I really wonder if we looked to take a leaf from Saints’ book when they recruited Jamie Lyona player who had lost interest in rugby, gone to play at a very low level and turned out to be one of the best signings ever. Our attempts have been less successful. (understatement of the year).
Our youth policy has had a rocky road and the successful clubs have had a solid core of homegrown players.
Plenty of other factors obviously.
The “excuses” is a red herring, the club have to say something. Given that at least half of the players and possibly the coach will be there the next season they have to be diplomatic in public. I doubt they are so diplomatic in private!
This is just my take on it, I have no inside info.

Yep. I blame our relatively poor recruitment & our lack of top notch local players.
I live miles away, now, but I'd guess we've not had the strongest schools/amateur club structure over the years.
re. Recruitment ... I'm hoping Matt Dufty might just be our Jamie Lyon.

What coaches/clubs say publicly is pretty worthless.

I am just contributing to a discussion on an internet forum dedicated to such. I've watched enough games in 43 years to satisfy myself that I am entitled to do that. I am on a self imposed hiatus at the moment as I'm not enjoying watching us nor accepting the served up.

I think we’ll make the six. And if that means only as high as sixth, I’ll be happy as long as we can make it at least as far as a semi-final. I’d rather that than finish higher up and limp out at the first hurdle like usual. If we do make the six I imagine we will do it playing more exciting rugby than we have for the past 9-10 years, something which will also make me a happy chappy.

So I’ll plump for:

1) Wigan
2) Saints
3) Cats
4) Leeds
5) Wire
6) Hull FC
7) Hudds (honeymoon year syndrome)


Cas
9) Salford
10) Hull KR
11) Wakey
12) The Leotards

During the 90s, Leeds were doing the same as us - trying to buy the title without success, and it was only when they made their youth level competitive with the top sides that success came their way. I'm fairly sure this played a major part and it may explain, to some degree, why we've been unsuccessful as we've only done the money bit and not the youth development. We did get close with Smith and really should have won at least one.

I agree with much of the above. With regards to a timeline, I think we should be looking at the performances and as many of the top coaches seem to say, focus on performance and the results will come.

Effort is number 1 - this was probably the biggest complaint and probably the main course of defeat as effort ties in with defence.

Passing moves and game play develop over a season and I'd expect us to develop enough to make the play offs and by that time, even if we were in the lower end (due to some early season dropped points), we should be giving anyone a challenge during that critical time.

So I do agree with probably everyone on here with regards to a definite improvement. I think though that we need to be realistic and patient in the first half of the season as professional teams in any sport don't just gel straight away. If that were the case, then sport would be simple: the club with the most money wins by just buying the best players and bingo.

Someone mentioned that we've bought 6 new players for the new season which is comparible to other sides. As far as I'm aware though, the other sides are adding to a core of players where we, given last season, have assembled a squad virtually from scratch - its a very different situation, hence the need for a bit of patience.

Any coach in this predicament, whether you like Powell or not, or whether you blame Powell or not, is starting at a disadvantage by the very nature of this rebuild ie. more work than probably anyone else to make our squad function as a team.

I think it'll be a really exciting season and I genuinely think things will improve dramatically, starting with effort. I can't see players like Mcgure moaning that he can't finish training early and I think the players know that Powell won't take any nonsense - we need that after Price.

Fingers crossed everybody and let's hope we see a seismic change.

Edit: (Easywire. I typed this during your post and we seem to be singing from the same hymm sheet with regards to playoffs).

This is a good point. We have virtually tried to change our go forward pack & is high risk.
When I look at how Huddersfield, for example, have added squad ... they seem to have added depth.
We seem to have more high cost high profile players. Our back up looks a bit thin.

Looking forward to it.

tell you whats worthwhile doing, going back and having another listen to that interview carney did with DP, a month or two on and not feeling as annoyed as i did when it came out, some of the responses feel a bit better than they did the first time i listened.

Hi eW, I fully respect your opinion on the the final standings next season because you are totally entitled to that . I would also like to point out that you guys are going into the unknown with hopeful performances straight away with all the changes you have made. It's also worth noting that you need to gel pretty quickly early doors, and this may or may not transpire especially after your poor run in last season . If this doesn't turn out the way you want it to (and i hope it does for you tbh) You will end up in a difficult situation. Yes Leigh have had to make changes, and also added quite a few quality players also, but the culture at Leigh (which as changed dramatically last season(for the good)) has carried on into this next season, and the winning mentality, and, the bonding, togetherness is still there. So I personally think your prediction is pretty much skewed on than that basis. Could I be wrong in all this? Of course I could.