Ratchford in the halves and Jack Johnson to full back.


Johnson
Lineham
Goodwin
Atkins
M. Brown
Roberts
Ratchford
Hill
Clarke
Hughes
Murdoch-Masila
Cooper

Crosby
Akauola
Luis Johnson (if we are being adventurous) or Westwood
Smith (literally our only back spare)

So you're dropping Brown?

Brown had a great game against Wigan. Whether you’re a K Brown fan or not that was the best half back display from one our players this season and he has to be given a chance to do it again against Saints. Roberts needs the game time and the training sessions to get up to speed and lets hope the weather is a bit more up his street for next week.

Brown on the bench then instead of Smith.

Patton needs to buck his ideas up pretty quick as he is looking like a poor mans Gaz O'Brian at the moment. His tackle(??) at Hull was verging on pathetic whether this was born out of some kind of frustration I don't know but he didn't do himself any favours.
Toby King has had wretched luck with injuries but I think there is a classy if not top notch centre in there somewhere. Remember Catalan away last year ( I think). Livett looks real class, looking forward to seeing him develop over the next couple of years

Tbf to Russell he didnt get binned by Hull. He was only ever on loan with us. You see more of him than me but I always think you guys are a little harsh on him. I think he is a decent player. He lacks size to be a winger in the modern game though. I think you would go better with him at full back and Ratchford at 6.

I've seen very little from Patton to suggest he is good enough though. Generally, if a back or half isn't showing anything by 21, he isnt going to make it. Forwards are different, they generally need a few years to become battle hardened for want of a better phrase. But name me a back who went on to be top class who wasnt already a star in his early 20's. They are few and far between.

Indeed he does and, with reference to the Academy thread, you wonder why he hasn't had more first team rugby as yet. If we was at Wigan would he have been bloodied by now?

Luke Gale.

Not that I’m suggesting Patton is a half-back at that level, but Gale only shone through these last couple of years didn’t he? Can’t think of many others though so fair point!

Brough, also think Akins at Rovers has potential aswell.

I'm not a big fan, but there is also case for Jamie Ellis.

Apparently there in no egp anymore?
Didn't know until this weekend.
Thought I'd get it up before BBW to save 2 minutes of his waste of time.

To this day the best game I have ever seen Brough have was 2005 away at Warrington in the playoffs. He might have had a few years in the wilderness after that but that was more down to attitude than ability. Ellis is a decent SL player but not what I would call top class. Atkin looks promising, remains to be seen whether he will press on. Gale was a good shout though.

Late blooming backs do exist. I am just saying they are rare. All the greats I can think of were already outstanding players very early in their careers. King and Patton are coming up to 22 and 23 respectively. My point is that if they arent showing much quality by now then the odds of them ending up as anything other than average journeymen arent great.

I agree with Mr Zucchini Head.

I think the situation with Gale and Brough was a different form of late developer. These were players who were out of the limelight as they were playing for smaller teams but worked their way up to the top through impressing at a lower level. James Maloney was the Aussie equivalent, he was playing NSW Cup until age 23.

Although the myth persists that the top teams persevere with young players year after year until they finally come good, they are more brutal than we are. Look at Luke Robinson and Kevin Brown - both binned by Wigan at age 21, and they weren't bad players, Wigan just saw them as "next level down" players not Wigan players. How many games do you think Hulse, O'Brien or Patton would have got if they had come through at Wigan? I can't see them getting more than a handful. And that's not because Wigan care less about young players than we do, it's because they won't keep rolling the dice hoping someone comes good, they suss out quite quickly whether someone is really a Wigan player or not, and if they aren't there will be plenty of other young lads chasing an opportunity.

Inevitably sometimes this ruthlessness means someone slips through the net. Wigan binned off Sean Long when he was 21 as they had the GB scrum half (Tony Smith) at the time plus Henry Paul in the halves, and maybe they regretted that. Leeds also released Luke Gale although they had Burrow and McGuire in their early 20s and Gale could only have been an understudy.

Players with real talent like Long and Gale will find a way to make it elsewhere, once they are in a team when they get first team action. You rarely see ex-Warrington players do that - if they get released by us their careers fade away and people on here say their 'confidence was destroyed' by being dropped and so on. Guys at other clubs seem to have some kind of toughness and determination like Long and Gale that they will find a way to make it elsewhere, that Warrington players don't seem to have.

Good post. It is that they are tougher and more determined, or simply that they have more ability?

Take Gary Hulse as an example. It took us 4 years and 50+ games to move him on. Then the usual happened ->Widnes -> Rochdale -> Swinton -> Done. I really don't think Gary's career faded away due to toughness or determination. Just talent.

I saw on this forum just this evening a comment about Livett a player at stage 1-2 in the progression. Will he become a top SL player for us or follow the usual path? You would be brave to bet on the former.


[i
Standard Warrington Youth Progression
1) Player shows a bit of promise (not world beater by any means) but those who follow the academy tell us to watch out for them
2) In and out of 17 as quality just not good enough
3) Loaned out to Rochdale etc to get game time
4) Transferred to Widnes/Salford or below.[/i

This is so true. Often Declan Patton gets compared with George Williams. With the latter assumed to have been given patience and time to find his way in the game with Wigan and to develop into a England international, whereas Warrington didn't give Patton the same chance. What observers fail to comment on is the sheer difference in ability. Williams won Super League Young Player of the Year award in 2015 and capped, and was lifting a GF the year later an a WCC a few months after that.

Patton has a fantastic kicking game both long and short, I’ve seen enough to know that. His defence is fine too. He just doesn’t seem to offer a running threat or be able to control a game at this stage. Whether he will ever be able to do that who knows.

In his defence - which of our half-backs HAVE offered that on a consistent basis since Sandow?

Whilst I have seen the attributes you have described, it's absolutely pointless if he doesn't get his hands on the ball. Patton is never involved enough to have an influence on the game which means as a half he is usually being carried. I want to see him lead the team around but he just doesn't. He doesn't even need to be the most talented half in the league so long as he always wants the ball (like Myler) ad he would end up being a very good support player.

Is there 1 game in the 47 he has played where you can honestly say he has taken the game by the scruff of the neck and influenced the result?

....yes.

I think he played well in the victory against Saints last year. The previous year he bossed a game away at Cats alongside Ratchford.

Then he was a deserving man of the match when we won the hubcap in 2016 at Hull. Not mercurial, but steady and ‘Matty Smith-like’.

Of course that doesn’t mean he’s the answer but he deserves credit when it’s been due.

3-5 game ban on the cards www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/spo ... nts_clash/

3-5 game ban on the cards www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/spo ... nts_clash/

as an fc supporter, i thought he won you the game v us for the league leaders shield in 2016 when sandow was out injured, he was outstanding that game, kicking us to death

Wow losing Akauola is not going to help.

Quote ="Wires71"3-5 game ban on the cards www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/spo ... nts_clash/'" Yes Patton does face a long ban and the red card decision was correct. But just in case anyone missed it..... after the live incident, the replay of it was shown 11 more times in the Broadcast..... Eleven..... and mostly in super slow mo for effect.... The Liam Watts incident was shown four more times in comparison, and of that head butt, John Wells for some reason needed to state "we dont need to see that anymore" in his post match analysis. added to that Carney praised Radford for his honest assessment of the head butt, and seemed to have a go at coaches who say they don't see things, which coincidentally was what price said about the Patton incident..... I assume Carney knew they had shown it enough times on the Big screen for Price to make a knee jerk scathing pitchside assesment on a young kid kopping his first red card.... you can see why Tony Smith was highly critical of the Sky team and their impartiality...!!!!!

Quote ="Wires71"3-5 game ban on the cards www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/spo ... nts_clash/'" Yes Patton does face a long ban and the red card decision was correct. But just in case anyone missed it..... after the live incident, the replay of it was shown 11 more times in the Broadcast..... Eleven..... and mostly in super slow mo for effect.... The Liam Watts incident was shown four more times in comparison, and of that head butt, John Wells for some reason needed to state "we dont need to see that anymore" in his post match analysis. added to that Carney praised Radford for his honest assessment of the head butt, and seemed to have a go at coaches who say they don't see things, which coincidentally was what price said about the Patton incident..... I assume Carney knew they had shown it enough times on the Big screen for Price to make a knee jerk scathing pitchside assesment on a young kid kopping his first red card.... you can see why Tony Smith was highly critical of the Sky team and their impartiality...!!!!!

I disagree, totally predictable with ball in hand, took too long when making decisions.

Widnes away last year. I agree with him being nowhere near good enough, zero threat attacking the line and attacking kicks are awful more often than not.