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| Quote ="karetaker"What you say is spot on and i enjoy your posts. But what do you suggest we do, these sit ins and congregations round main entrance dont happen without a leader or a group if friends doing this and then others see it and join in. Back in the day i think we had a more adult following these days its full of kids who spend more time looking at their facebook page tham actually watching the game.'"
OK that's a fair point. Who would join me if I were to sit down in the south after the Leigh game?
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Club Owner | 4250 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"That poop on facebook, makes you think china and north Korea are right over their internet policy. It shouldn't be for everyone.'"
Lol! Yep I think they might be on to something.
Whatever you do, when on Facebook....don't mention the shape of the planet, the dinosaurs, evolution or our average error count.
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| Quote ="easyWire"And the first thing the CEO did to save the struggling clothes business was immediately re-structure the management below him.
But that CEO hadn't just been promoted from working directly beneath the managers he now needed to replace.
It's an awkward scenario that we shouldn't be in - it's all too closely knit.'"
It is peculiar to appoint a CEO with experience in a national body, only then to appoint someone from the dressing room.
With no offence to the incumbent (I really mean it), he doesn't have the working knowledge and little black book of contacts we so really needed when we brought in Roger.
Makes me wonder if he massively dropped his salary expectations, and what we were offering isn't of any interest to a hard hitter we may or may not need/deserve.
More questions than answers!
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| When were were cr☆p we had good reason for it....we were in heavy debt.
There is no excuse for mediocre performances now.
Even when we're were broke, the team were trying. We loved them for it. We were not broken in defeat....except for cc draw defeats of course.
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| Quote ="Wires71"OK that's a fair point. Who would join me if I were to sit down in the south after the Leigh game?'"
I would if i had not already stopped going lol.
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| Quote ="karetaker"I would if i had not already stopped going lol.'"
Just go for the sit in when they open the gates at the end of the game?
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| I feel that it will take a sit in and some fan anger for things to change the club see us as being in a slump and that new signings will get us out of it when its clear to see that there are some deficiencies in how we are approaching games so irrespective of playing staff it ill not change dramatically Imo
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| Quote ="rubber duckie"When were were cr☆p we had good reason for it....we were in heavy debt.
There is no excuse for mediocre performances now.
Even when we're were broke, the team were trying. We loved them for it. We were not broken in defeat....except for cc draw defeats of course.'"
Absolute bullseye this. Said it numerous times, we were always the plucky underdog and fans and players gave their all.
But we didn't have a pot to pee in. So the were mitigating circumstances for poor performances.
What Smith has allowed to happen in the last 4-5 years is a total dereliction of duty end of story
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| Quote ="Tiz Lad"
What Smith has allowed to happen in the last 4-5 years is a total dereliction of duty end of story'"
The damning facts are
1. No GF win in 8 seasons. (2010,11,12,13,14,15,16,17)
2. No CC win in 5 seasons. (2013,14,15,16,17)
3. Currently 10th in the league.
How the performance team has remained intact baffles me.
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| To add to that - here's our league placings since 2010. There's a very definite downward trend since that hot 2011 season.
Last year was a blip for a number of factors. Following the trend, around 10th this season is actually where we "should" be.
Also, as you say, zero Championships won during this period.
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| Quote ="Jimathay"To add to that - here's our league placings since 2010. There's a very definite downward trend since that hot 2011 season.
Last year was a blip for a number of factors. Following the trend, around 10th this season is actually where we "should" be.
Also, as you say, zero Championships won during this period.
'"
Great graph, they are brilliant aren't they?
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| That's the great thing about facts. Hard to argue against.
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| Quote ="Jimathay"To add to that - here's our league placings since 2010. There's a very definite downward trend since that hot 2011 season.
Last year was a blip for a number of factors. Following the trend, around 10th this season is actually where we "should" be.
Also, as you say, zero Championships won during this period.
'"
slightly misleading over 2014
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| Quote ="Wires71"That's the great thing about facts. Hard to argue against.'"
Graphs aren't facts they are a representation of facts, alter the scale bar and our predicted malaise we should be 7th this year not 10th as the Jimathay states, whether that is a comfort or not we are where we are I suppose and we all agree it's not where we want to be.
Spike up to 1st or second next year and this evaluate over a longer time frame and year is the blip and as for your damning 'facts' the graph shows that 5 seasons out of 8 aren't that damning IMO but this is a whole different discussion to how much the fans are to blame
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| Quote ="Uncle Rico"Graphs aren't facts they are a representation of facts, alter the scale bar and our predicted malaise we should be 7th this year not 10th as the Jimathay states, whether that is a comfort or not we are where we are I suppose and we all agree it's not where we want to be.
Spike up to 1st or second next year and this evaluate over a longer time frame and year is the blip and as for your damning 'facts' the graph shows that 5 seasons out of 8 aren't that damning IMO but this is a whole different discussion to how much the fans are to blame'"
Please show me anywhere in my post that I mentioned the word graph.
The league positions are fact though, and back up my personal [iinterpretation[/i of the facts that as a club we are declining, not ascending.
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| Just for a reality check please put up a graph of our performance for the 10 years previous to 2010.
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| We were the City of RL. For 35 years both clubs failed to win a major trophy then broke their duck at Wembley. We then went a few years being the Arsenal of RL, winning the odd Cup but not Super League.
I don't know what we are now.
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| Quote ="Psychedelic Casual"We were the City of RL. For 35 years both clubs failed to win a major trophy then broke their duck at Wembley. We then went a few years being the Arsenal of RL, winning the odd Cup but not Super League.
I don't know what we are now.'"
Shat. Boring, predictable, clueless, great trainers.
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| 1996: 5th
1997: 9th
1998: 10th
1999: 7th
2000: 6th
2001: 7th
2002: 10th
2003: 6th
2004: 8th
2005: 4th
2006: 6th
2007: 7th
2008: 6th
2009: 10th
2010: 3rd
2011: 1st
2012: 2nd
2013: 2nd
2014: 5th
2015: 6th
2016: 1st
2017: 10th (currently)
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| Quote ="Wires71"Please show me anywhere in my post that I mentioned the word graph.
The league positions are fact though, and back up my personal [iinterpretation[/i of the facts that as a club we are declining, not ascending.'"
Really, what does that mean, I never mentioned facts? You followed my post about the graph and alluded to it showing facts in a conversation, joined up thinking sense. I'm sorry for misinterpreting your post, or giving you credit that might not be deserved,
It's difficult to argue with someone that constantly states that the facts are the facts, and then uses their interpretation of the facts to back up their argument. You know like you did previously discounting the LLS as worthwhile trophy and using the data to compare TS's barren years (post 2012 in your book), with our peers.....who could argue with that?
I will leave it there thanks as it seems that all debate, even one asking is it the fans fault is stuck on a default path that ultimately lead to a none GF winning 'Rome' ....see you at the sit in
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| Quote ="Wires71"Please show me anywhere in my post that I mentioned the word graph.
The league positions are fact though, and back up my personal [iinterpretation[/i of the facts that as a club we are declining, not ascending.'"
Well, you have to be careful with facts as well 71. If you take the graph up to 2016 you would have to say that there has been no decline at all. And of course Jimathy described 2016 as a 'blip', but of course it would also be easy to say that 2017 is a 'blip' and ignore it.
The way people interpret the 'facts' is the important aspect - as well all know Russia didn't invade Crimea, there is no such thing as the holocaust, and the moon landing was staged in a film set -- all stuff you would laugh at, but believed by large numbers of people around the world. All caused by people with an agenda interpreting the 'facts'.
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| Quote ="Uncle Rico"Really, what does that mean, I never mentioned facts? You followed my post about the graph and alluded to it showing facts in a conversation, joined up thinking sense. I'm sorry for misinterpreting your post, or giving you credit that might not be deserved,
It's difficult to argue with someone that constantly states that the facts are the facts, and then uses their interpretation of the facts to back up their argument. You know like you did previously discounting the LLS as worthwhile trophy and using the data to compare TS's barren years (post 2012 in your book), with our peers.....who could argue with that?
I will leave it there thanks as it seems that all debate, even one asking is it the fans fault is stuck on a default path that ultimately lead to a none GF winning 'Rome' ....see you at the sit in'"
The facts I was referring to were the historic league positions which were shown in the graph. I don't know why you have such an issue with dealing in facts.
No-one has said they would join me at the sit in, so I'm not wasting £22 breaking my strike and going to the game for nothing.
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| Quote ="Winslade's Offload"Well, you have to be careful with facts as well 71. If you take the graph up to 2016 you would have to say that there has been no decline at all. And of course Jimathy described 2016 as a 'blip', but of course it would also be easy to say that 2017 is a 'blip' and ignore it.
The way people interpret the 'facts' is the important aspect - as well all know Russia didn't invade Crimea, there is no such thing as the holocaust, and the moon landing was staged in a film set -- all stuff you would laugh at, but believed by large numbers of people around the world. All caused by people with an agenda interpreting the 'facts'.'"
I understand your point, but surely we can all agree the league positions stated are accurate, and it was those to which I referred. It's not like I'm citing UFO sightings as "fact" or proof of irreducible complexity as "fact".
Rico get's in a huff when I use facts to back my argument up. But his judgement may be seen to be flawed as he was a Smith Remainer until having a recent epiphany and doing a volte-face.
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| Quote ="Bigted"Just for a reality check please put up a graph of our performance for the 10 years previous to 2010.'"
Yes, our history and where we were 10 or 20 years ago is worth taking stock of, but kind of irrelevant with where we should be now.
Bradford were multiple Super League and World Champs 15 or so years ago. They don't expect that now though - they set their expectations based on recent history and the current state of the club.
Similarly, why should we be happy with finishing 7th-10th just because 10-20 years ago that's where we were? Where we were all that time ago is irrelevant for today's expectations given the current state/setup/playing staff/financial clout etc.
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| Anyone is free to interpret the data as they see fit. Whether you see this season as a blip, or last season as a blip - only time will tell in future seasons.
If you look at Leeds' league graph, it makes far worse reading than ours, but they have 3 SL Championships over that same time.
Rico already called it - the debate is heading to to our "non-GF wins". We've contested 3 GFs. Two of them, on another day, we could/should have won. For the toss of a coin we would have 2 Championships. Then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
But as cliche as it is to say, sport is a results led business. We didn't win. We have won diddly squat of importance. That's why we have the conversations about the LLS and CC. It's the wrong conversation to be having IMO. We are Arsenal, proud of our "4th place trophy", while Wigan, Saints and Leeds are winning real titles.
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