I didn't start a whinging thread, but there is winging on it now from posters reading something into something that wasn't there to start with and whinging about daring to discus it.

I simply asked if everyone was happy with him?
I personally think Joel is in better form.
I attribute it to Tom looking a little unfit.
I'm not unhappy with him but I think, no... I'm hopeful, that he has more development within him.
He has the potential to be the best in the league no question. At this time there are a few I think in better shape and form.

Tell you what, duckie, I'll throw you two names "into the mix" that some older people would know.

Brian Bevan (who looked like a good dinner would finish him off), and Billy Boston (who looked like he'd enjoyed too many dinners). They're not as toned as Joel. So flippin' what.

What do we want? A try scoring winger, or a cover model for Muscle Monthly?

The fella's in good form. Why the need for a thread, if it's not to praise him.
To think. There's a thread on here, laughing a Stains for having a Cunningham Out petition. We have one, on a player that's in form, picking fault.

If it's not broke, don't fix it

I agree with you, seems some on here are not happy unless we have someone to pick on. Infact why not pick on Penny i saw him miss a tackle in the Widnes game and then stand and watch instead of going back after him, didnt see the need to make a thread to bash him about it though, and before you start Rico i get your point about opinions and people are entitled but jesus we have had best start to a season in a long time why do people feel the need to puck on a player why cant we just enjoy it while it lasts.

Who said I wasn't enjoying it

Brian Bevan ... would have taken so much stick on here. Bloody awful defender. Must of given away countless tries!!! Should have bulked up.

Only a month ago, we put in one of the most abject 30 minute passages of play, it's been my misfortune to witness as a fan of 527 years of this club. This included a pathetic attempt at a tackle by the club captain, and levels of performance by established pro's, which led to me thinking "wtf is this". No thread start ups, though. No scapegoating. Just the realisation that players make mistakes/poor decisions. We turned it round, and won a pulsating game of RL. As I said, THAT'S SPORT. No need for knee-jerk. No need for witch hunts.

Are some us THAT fickle? Lose a game, and start questioning fitness of indiviuals.
At the same time as that Salford game, many on here where championing our fitness levels and our new conditioner, as the factor to us winning games. If that's so, why were we picking an "obviously unfit player" (Lineham), and praising Clarke/Smith for allowing the same "unfit" player, game time.

Death
Taxes
A Warrington Scapegoat
The three surest things in life

Brian Bevan. He was a freak. I did see him play! Mind you, it was at a testimonial.
I ask another question, would Bevan even make It SL?
He probably might but he'd be near cut in two if the opposition got a hand on him. He'd be laid out more that Wheeler.

Still not biting Lefty.
I questioned his fitness that I consider is effecting him to perform at his unquestioned top draw ability. I'm still to see a creditable argument, just two or three playing the scapegoat card.

I despair.
If he wasn't fit, or any where near optimum fitness, he'd've barely scored a try. Some of his tries this season have "taken some scoring". You don't score those tries if you're unfit.

I'll throw you another name.
When I started watching RL in the late 70's/early 80's, the Aussies had a winger, Eric Grothe who (as well as being called The Guru) who was also unflatteringly known as "the armchair" due to his size. Now I'm not making a class comparison. Just a size. You see. You don't have to conform to a set of dimensions, to be a good player.

Anyway. WHY is he unfit? Is he blowing after a 30m run? Can he not stand the pace of a SL game? Or is it because you perceive him to be "carrying a bit of timber" around?

Didn't do David Solamona any harm, did it (or Eric Grothe)?

forum
ˈfɔːrəm
noun

a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

-------
opinion
əˈpɪnjən
noun

a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

--------
discussion
dɪˈskʌʃ(ə)n
noun

the action or process of talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

a conversation or debate about a specific topic.

--------

scapegoat
ˈskeɪpɡəʊt/
noun

a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others, especially for reasons of expediency.

-------
Straw Man fallacy

when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

--------

Great analysis Yed. Makes for an entertaining forum. You'll all get lots of pleasure from watching Tom, he's a great lad.

Bevan and Boston were both great wingers. Bevan was fast and elusive, Boston all power and speed down the wing - almost impossible to stop in the corner. I watched them both though only the very end of Bevan's career. But it was a different era. If you look at Kevin Penny you can see the epitome of the modern winger. Not only is he fast, but he has become very secure under the high ball and he does plenty of work bringing the ball back to give our forwards a rest. Incredibly, his tackling also seems to be getting better and better. So the modern winger has a lot more to do than in Bevan's day, or even Brian Glover's. Lets not forget that Chris Riley scored a lot of tries for us, but TS still let him go. I would have to disagree that the job of the winger is to score tries.

As for the forum, one of the nice things about coming on here is to see all the different viewpoints and think 'hmmm, I hadn't noticed that, or realised such and such'. People will always have very different views about a player regardless of whether they are Sandow or Asotasi. That's life.

He is a good player, with some great skills. If Tony can work with him a little on his decision-making, and on how to use that frame a little more effectively to make metres and linebreaks, he will become a great player.

Very pleased so far.

Where did i say you are not enjoying it, it seems we picking on a player because he is not as good as x y or z was, well in that same mode Chris Hill must be rubbish because he is not as good as Morley ???

Hill is better than Morley.

I agree with this.

So long as 'areas for improvement' are aired in the right manner then it can be constructive, and also enlightening for those of us who are not necessarily so attuned to the tactics etc.
That's what I like - because I learn.
It's the same for players (not saying they read this forum though LJ!

)

Lineham is scoring tries - that's probably the key requisite - which is great and quite rightly he's applauded for that. Modern wingers need to do more than that.
He has the potential to do it all, but at the moment it's not there, or not been shown consistently. Just develop to your potential lad!

All players can up their game in some shape or form.

The ''criticism'' of him shows how well our other signings have settled in and are performing when I consider he's the least impressive of them.

Roll on Wigan.
Don't think we'll win but you never know.

I hope they do sometimes pal, especially when they need a kick up the ar53

I think i probably would as a player to use it as motivation but some respond to critiscism and some go into their shell so i suppose it depends on the individual

Its not as those we are fickle or anything as fans though is it!!!

I'm happy as Lineham is heading in the right direction doing all the things a winger is expected to do, things can and do go awry at times to any player/team but Lineham seems to be getting on with being a winger and new team member.

Wire fans the butt of jokes for years suddenly had expectations raised in 2009
We've come close to winning the elusive GF we all want more than anything, it takes us to a whole new level above 'fickle'.
Unrealistic expectations of the players week in week out.

I heard Gary Lineker talking about this raising of expectations. When Leicester are battling for promotion or a play off place or to avoid relegation, that's exciting and as a fan you get excited. Now that they are in with a chance of actually winning the league title, he said it's harder to enjoy and winning is all that matters. I know exactly what he means (see 2011-2013).

It's not really the point of the thread so wont be entering into a prolonged discussion with you karetaker but read your own post again. To be helpful, here's how it ends, "...why do people feel the need to puck (sic) on a player why can't we just enjoy it while it lasts".

FWIW I don't think there's many saying that Tom Lineham isn't a good player, but his defence and fitness have rightly, or wrongly been questioned, or was he just over tired on Monday, or distracted by returning to his former club, or he's new and if we'd won we wouldn't even have this thread or is the fact that he scored two try's and is now 8 in 8 sufficient return?

I think it's what makes this board interesting.

I have been a fan now for around ten years now and the club has been transformed in that time with one main aim/vision,i think this year more than any other after listening to us the fans the club are getting it right on and off the pitch and our ' New Brand ' is in its infancy but we are all pulling in the same direction and the club are listening to us,i am a firm believer if we get it right on the pitch then everything else will follow

What this forum does show is that we all have different opinions and healthy banter (most of the time) but we all want one thing and that is a successful RL club,we all care and sometimes when we post emotion overtakes and we are kept in line by the powers that be!

Expectations will naturally rise and with this different pressures will have to be dealt with, hopefully we will be up there to be shot at,i think we need perspective which most of us do have,some posters just like a rise out of others but thats always going to happen

We are certainly going places and will have to earn our place at the top table but those expectations i think are becoming realistic with the players and staff we now have on board

I have two specific criticisms of Lineham;

1) When coming in to help the middle six with an exit set I have never seen such a big player die so easily in the collision with no leg drive or impact. He doesn't even get a particularly quick PTB to compensate.

2) His reading of the game defensively although I suspect this is down to experience as he is a latecomer to the game. Might benefit from playing outside a more experienced centre.

We will see if our coaching staff can make improvements to his game. Hope so.

Thats my grumble froma few week ago, if you compare his kick returns and also his exit sets to what we're getting from russell and especially penny who's upped his game in this area, he should be doing a hell of a lot better.

ive been trying to keep my power dry, as he is a new signing... but he is an obvious weak link.

absolutely awful again tonight.... i dont care about all this 'he has a great try ratio' rubbish.

Decent players are defined by how they play in big games... and he looks sub standard, and thats being very king to the lad.