I've heard interviews from both Ashcroft and Murphy both saying in that in the 71 and 74 CC finals Murphy told Ashcroft not to win a scrum.
Murphy wanted leeds and Fev to know they were in a battle.
Resulting in wins for leigh and wire, each were against the odds.

He obviously got it wrong then because he won several scrums, particularly when Bridges was on another planet.
Ashcroft was a tough guy who would mix it with anybody but he was extremely average at winning the ball.
I would not say our win against Featherstone was against the odds. We were far the better team and given a fair share of possession there was only going to be one winner.

We were slight underdogs that day.
Fev were the holders and I think finished top of the league regular.

I cannot remember Featherstone ever winning the league. They were cup specialists with a big heavy hard pack which suited the heavy grounds of Winter rugby and they did enjoy great success in getting to Wembley but did not break many pots in the league.
In actual fact, that year, they finished eighth in the league and won nothing. Warrington won The John Player Trophy, The Captain Morgan Trophy, The Club Championship and the Challenge Cup. Not bad for underdogs

We was slight under dogs according to the interview with Murphy.
I was too young to know any better in 74.

what about john dalgreen @tony miller

thread on Joel Monaghan turns into 4 pages about his brother haha

Ikr poor fella

Back to Joel then...

Would you rather have Joel Monaghan...

or Chris Hicks....?

Hicks for me.
They are level on all counts apart from speed and kicking.
Joel simply isn't fast - not that you need to be in 90% of plays but for the 10%....
Spider was fast and could kick too.

Don't get me wrong - Joel is very very good and is proving to be a great centre also, but Chris is my preference.

To be fair, both rarely had a bad game.

Best wingers in the country this year - Hall plus one from Carney, Joel,
Escare, Makison, Charnley (although he's been out for a while)

Imagine if we had both - owh the tries we'd score

Wow - yes....... formidable

Joel
or Watkins?

how old was Hicks when he joined and how old was Joel?

Hicks was 'past it' when we signed him and Joel was in his prime.

can i have Hicks in his prime?

Hicks wasn't past it when he came, any more than Brett Hodgson was.

I think Hicks was a better athlete than Joel but Joel is a very good all round winger, and he got representative honours in Australia which Hicks never did. I reckon most Aussies would rate Joel the better of the two in the NRL.

I wonder what a younger Hicks would have been like for us. I do remember when he was at Penrith, his name used to come up in the 'fastest player in the NRL' discussions. He was fairly quick when he played for us but in the mid 2000s he had out and out pace.

Joel all day long!! Joel could, has and does finish tries that very few players in the world can. Add that to strong defence and great kick return metres. This year too, he has stood up as a leader, especially earlier in the year when we were on the back foot.

I can't remember Joel having an average game, never mind a bad one.

Hicks had more pace and could score from distance and, just as important, chase people down in defence.
Joel has more guile and he has an uncanny knack of putting himself in the right place to finish off a move and to defend but since I believe that there is no substitute for pace, Hicks has to shade it.

I would have to choose Hicks out of the 2.

Joel has a better try return, Hicks scored 71 in 81 Appearances, whereas obviously Joel has played more and kept his try tally above his games played. But then Hicks could kick, and played in a worse? team...

If Joel scores more than 3 tries at Wembley I'll change my mind from Hicks.

Both great players, why do we need to try to compare them as the style of play is completely different?
I feel privileged that they both have worn the P&B and agree with the original post we certainly miss JM when injured or rested!

Joel at Centre with Hicks on his Wing.

joel's had a few iffy patches, i think at the start of 2011, or even 12 when people said his pace had gone, he had been burned off on a few interceptions or dropped balls, and once or twice he had picked up loose balls and got caught quite easily.

Also in terms of try returns, Spider had to play full back for a period in 2008.

the prospect of joel at centre and hicks on the wing? wow

I would have loved to see Joel at centre with hicks on the wing outside him. They have both been quality players for wire, great signings.

If only....