The post was in reply to the "one game from getting the sack". It took AF 6 years to turn the then basket case of MUFC into serial title winners.

I'm just not persuaded by the argument that we should stick with Smith come what may because Alex Ferguson nearly got the sack.

I enjoy your posts on here and I like your thinking.

To me, fans of all sport and especially the media and a lot of coaches are loath to accept that 'luck' plays a huge part in creating winners and losers. If Gidley had taken a better option on the last play in the GF Tony Smith would have been a winning coach. Nothing whatsoever to do with Smith of course. And Wane would have lost three finals in a row and would have been branded (by many Wigan fans as a 'bottler') as a serial loser.

Coaches pick the team and prepare the tactics and then once the game starts it's out of their hands and subject to the bounce of the ball, refereeing decisions and players making uncharacteristic errors.

All last season I argued on the Wigan board that Wane is the best man for us. And I'm pretty sure that Tony Smith is the right man for Wire. With luck he could have won the treble last year.

Calling for the head of the coach is utter nonsense. The RFL hardly handed Wire an easy start. Away to Cats and then Cas at home with Brisbane in the middle. Wigan got Salford and Widnes (which we nearly messed up). The games against NRL teams take a lot out of the players and you will suffer for a good few weeks yet.

You only get rid of a coach if he is making a complete mess of things - not when you are the most consistent team in the league. Darryl Powell is a poor man's Tony Smith. He offers nothing that TS couldn't do. There is no pressure on him at Cas where success is a top 4 finish. Wire fans, be careful what you wish for I'd say!

really livett is consistent how can you make that statement after 2/3 games as a substitute ????

Well Atkins, Evans and Russell certainly aren't. Only one way to find out.

Livett created more chances in his first 5 touches of the ball than Atkins or Evans did in the entire game. Give the lad a chance, He's been consistent in every game in which he's come off the bench and not looked out of place once. Even the few minutes he played against Brisbane. Either way a member of our back line needs dropping. He Showed great composure and maturity to kick a must kick conversion to bring us within 4 points.

He couldn't really do any worse.

I feel Atkins problem is he knows he's un-droppable. Even when he's been out injured, the second he's fit he's come straight back into the team. Even when his replacement has been doing just as well if not better. He must be on some serious wedge, to constantly feature the way he has done.

I know, but, thought that it was worth a point of order particularly as we have won 'our' FA Cup under TS more than once

Spot on post as is Sally's IMO.

If we stay out of the top 8 in 2017 and limp home in the play offs to retain SL status, then perhaps it is worth a review, but, to argue that unless we win the GF this year then Smith must go is barmy and we'd better have a really good Plan B I'm sorry maybe my expectations are low having won the LLS and gone to two finals but I just can't see the better alternative

Its funny as well how people know that Darrell Powel is available and wants to come to Warrington or that we can attract the best coach from the NRL who also wants to come over here. I don't see any confirmation of the centres and wingers who were knocking on our door in the close season wanting to join to replace Atkins, Evans and Russell. Anyone who thinks TS should be replaced is absolutely mad and anyone who is not happy with the two finals and a LLS needs to save their money and stay at home. We all want the GF but so do the other clubs so why are all other clubs not sacking the coach, Radford should have gone for not getting in the GF after being top all year, Cunningham should as they won nothing, Powell as they didn't win a final, McDerrmot say no more.
It makes me laugh that after 2 defeats to good sides and one away in France some people are doing the same as last season moan moan moan.

Well said Marshman777, actually taking into account real life rather than a wish list ignoring salary cap/availability etc etc

The team did enough to get through the Cats game relatively injury free, they played brilliantly against Brisbane and then dropped their individual efforts against Castleford, that is there for all to see. However, the most notable areas were the centres. How many posters on this subject have been calling for the head of TS? Most want the deficiency sorted by either kicking the current incumbent centres up the arris or blood the young guns and taking the comments of others, blooding the youngsters won't matter too much as its early in the season.

ok so at what point do we decide that smith is not the man to win us the gf?? 10 years of being the nearly men ??? getting to finals is great but its winning them that counts, if we had been robbed in a final or were on the end of some harsh decisions maybe but we have been ahead and lost in finals too many times.


my point is that given the previous 8/9 years incharge we look nowhere near even capable of winning one, and the team today is not a patch on the 2012 team so he has had his chance and not taken it. if Powell Bennet or any other top grade manager becomes available why should we not try to get them to come to warrington?? I don't think theres an immediate rush to replace smith however the reasoning not to does not make sense to me. any new coach or manager would be a risk if they have won a cup does not mean that they will win cups with us same way that a manager who has won noting wouldn't be able to get a side to win the gf. harking back a few years for the cc wins as a reason to keep him on. if smith was as good as some would have us believe then every other team in the super league would be desperate to sign him as would many nrl clubs but they are not.

again I'm nit calling for his immediate sacking but think that its time the club started to look and sound out possible replacements for him irrespective of if he wins a trophy or not this year, the replacement may agree to a move in two years or something not everyone can just walk away from contracts a la denny!!!

Exactly my view. I want Smith to sort the obvious deficiencies. Other clubs manage to have a decent backline within the same salary cap.

There is a point though where, surely, if winning the GF is the club's objective that we need to change something if we continually fail to do so. I merely suggested perhaps the end of this season is the time. Seems to me opinion is split and bizarrely some are quite happy for the situation to continue ad mortem.

Is this no exactly what TS did in the match against Brisbane? Or at Wembley against Huddersfield or Leeds (twice)?

The main problem seems to be that Cas did to us what we did to Brisbane the week before, fast out of the blocks & took them apart in the first half.

I think it's the three GF losses which spring to mind.

Daryl Powell hasn't been in a Grand Final, he's had two Challenge Cup finals and lost both.

If he had got Castleford to three Grand Finals and lost them all would that make him a less attractive option for us compared to never having been there.

Why has this debate conflated the issue of "When is Smiths time up" and the relative merits of Daryl Powell?

Agreed, this (as I see it) is not a discussion for winding up the tenure of TS but one aimed at resolving the obvious deficiencies in the current squad and in particular the starting 17.

Maybe Mr Smith thought the better recruitment option for this season would be to load up with mobile young forwards who could interchange into playing centre if necessary. Maybe his preferred option when his players are fit will be a choice between Ratchford & Currie among his starting threequarters ,& isn't Matty Blyth also a centre cum second row.
Either way,i'm sure Tony is more than pleased for the advice offered on this forum.

Loading up with young forwards who drop into the centre position is a wonderful idea, but not dropping out of form players is the exact opposite and that the crux of the debate, I look forward to watching Dominic and Andre racing through the line and putting their respective winger in for the tries.

Except Gidley routinely chooses the wrong option, which was a criticism of him throughout his NRL career and hasn't changed in SL... so no it is nothing to do with luck when he did the same thing again in the grand final.

Warrington failing to win a grand final hasn't been because of bad luck, it has been down to under performing/poor player selection... which is down to the coach.

But as people have already said, a lot of fans are more than happy with finishing high up in the league and making the odd final appearence.

He'll sure be happier with that than the league position he finds himself in.

Seriously if Matty Blythe becomes a 3/4 option then it's all gone to pot.

Matty Blythe is a slower version of Rhys Evans, they don't have half a rugby brain between them.

Gordon Bennett - the guy hasn't even played for us since he returned and he's getting stick.

That's forums I suppose.....

I found myself at Rochdale v Halifax on Sunday afternoon; Blythe had an absolute shocker. Last year, Bradford fans had very few good words to say about him. So unless you are aware of something which I am missing, forgive me for struggling to understand where or how he will fit into a squad which has to be winning Super League this year!

At the time of his signing my immediate assumption was that he had been signed to form part of the reserve squad. By all accounts he is a good trainer and has a good attitude, the right sort of guy we need in that set up.