It is a shame, but given the amount of clubs that actually took it up, not much of a surprise.

In terms of salary cap, I don't think it has a huge impact, we used academy players, and players like Lee Mitchell in the reserves last year I believe (as well as squad players needing game time), as Mitchell was never going to play in a SL game, his salary wouldn't have counted on the cap, neither would academy players outside of teh SL squad. There is obviously a cost to the club for having these extra players, but I think Briers mentioned it was only £50k or so?

Not sure whether us leaving is Price wanting to do things different, or whether its the frustration of the amount of fixtures able to be played.

Well I honestly didn't know this or envisaged it either.
Huge backwards step imo.

However if the other sl arnt buying into it...what is the point.

30k was the cost quoted in 2016 when we were one of the few arguing the toss over it, and it paid off for us, and for a few players like david thompson, sean kenny and the other fella i can't remember that went to salford, there were moans at the time that other SL clubs who had injury problems and invested in overseas players, were coming to us *coff widnes asking for loans.

Last year we tried to do it again, and it was other clubs letting the side down.

It'd be interesting to hear what Pricey's view on a reserve grade is. Whether he's in favour or not.

This must be another nail in the coffin of RL.Back in the day when the game was semi professional the step up from amateur was relatively easy so the path from school team to first team was fairly seamless. Today there is a vast gulf between SL and the rest of the game and unless that is plugged I fear for the future.

It's so easy to fix.
Cut the number of overseas players to three and/or reduce the Sky tv money by £100K for the teams who don't run reserve grade teams.
It's very difficult for young players to go straight from U19's academy into regular first team rugby.

The other thing I would do is to have eight players on the subs bench, four of whom had to be twenty-one or under at the start of the season. From those eight I would allow six substitutions, one you're off you're off, and let stamina again be part of the game.

Would you like a salary cut to fund a yts program?

It's something they could look at at the next tv rights deal.

Unfortunately self interest rules our game, and the lack of a reserve competition is a good example of that.

Without enough reserve grade players coming through the clubs there will be no peer pressure for individuals to up their game in order to gain a first team place & what are we going to fill our teams with if the money driven exodus of overseas players continues. We all know contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.Without quality reserves coming through international games will soon be a thing of the past.

Problems in the reserve grade go back a few years to when the RFL played around with the levels (many at the time said that the old levels worked for player development better and they never listened) and then took no action when Salford and Catalan pulled their reserve structures (Featherstone and Sheffield taking there place at the time). 2017s reserve competition was meaningless with very few teams being involved. The dual registration system has its benefits (nothing is better for development than game time) and also its pitfalls (local lads miss out) but maybe Warrington's decision actually has more to do with supporting lower grade rugby than first appeared. By allowing Warrington players on dual registrations, it may be a way for Rochdale to play out theri season and have the time to get on a stable financial footing. https://getemonsideblog.wordpress.com/2 ... ifficulty/

Problems in the reserve grade go back a few years to when the RFL played around with the levels (many at the time said that the old levels worked for player development better and they never listened) and then took no action when Salford and Catalan pulled their reserve structures (Featherstone and Sheffield taking there place at the time). 2017s reserve competition was meaningless with very few teams being involved. The dual registration system has its benefits (nothing is better for development than game time) and also its pitfalls (local lads miss out) but maybe Warrington's decision actually has more to do with supporting lower grade rugby than first appeared. By allowing Warrington players on dual registrations, it may be a way for Rochdale to play out theri season and have the time to get on a stable financial footing. https://getemonsideblog.wordpress.com/2 ... ifficulty/

Quote ="mikej"Problems in the reserve grade go back a few years to when the RFL played around with the levels (many at the time said that the old levels worked for player development better and they never listened) and then took no action when Salford and Catalan pulled their reserve structures (Featherstone and Sheffield taking there place at the time). 2017s reserve competition was meaningless with very few teams being involved. The dual registration system has its benefits (nothing is better for development than game time) and also its pitfalls (local lads miss out) but maybe Warrington's decision actually has more to do with supporting lower grade rugby than first appeared. By allowing Warrington players on dual registrations, it may be a way for Rochdale to play out theri season and have the time to get on a stable financial footing. https://getemonsideblog.wordpress.com/2 ... ifficulty/'" What happens when Rochdale are flying with our duel lads in the team and we decide to call all the duel reg players back? Rochdale are left in the poop with a load of positions to fill with lads that the forced out the team to accommodate the duel lads. Duel Reg weakens the championship game rather than helping it.

Quote ="mikej"Problems in the reserve grade go back a few years to when the RFL played around with the levels (many at the time said that the old levels worked for player development better and they never listened) and then took no action when Salford and Catalan pulled their reserve structures (Featherstone and Sheffield taking there place at the time). 2017s reserve competition was meaningless with very few teams being involved. The dual registration system has its benefits (nothing is better for development than game time) and also its pitfalls (local lads miss out) but maybe Warrington's decision actually has more to do with supporting lower grade rugby than first appeared. By allowing Warrington players on dual registrations, it may be a way for Rochdale to play out theri season and have the time to get on a stable financial footing. https://getemonsideblog.wordpress.com/2 ... ifficulty/'" What happens when Rochdale are flying with our duel lads in the team and we decide to call all the duel reg players back? Rochdale are left in the poop with a load of positions to fill with lads that the forced out the team to accommodate the duel lads. Duel Reg weakens the championship game rather than helping it.

Just to put another slant on this one. We are all moaning about the lack of talent coming through and the majority think the reserve structure should be brought back for all teams, what about the fact that there are not enough players capable of playing reserve grade rugby and this is the reason why its failing. If a player coming through the U19's is good enough for SL he will get a full time contract, if he isn't he wont. Why would a club keep players to help develop them if they are not up to the required standard at 19/20? How many players have been released by a top club due to not being good enough and then a few years later they are a SL player with another club, not many if any. What I am getting at is we would be running a reserve grade team to keep 6/7 players playing until they are ready for the 1st team, and that doesn't make financial sense.

Because you can't expect a 19 year old lad to go straight from the U19's to SL and be up to that standard. It's a completely different game. The Reserve game needs to be there to provide a half way for them. There will be certain 19's who will be able to hold their own but they are very few and far between.

the lack of quality aussie talent willing to come over has resulted in academy lads being thrown straight in at the deep end and the standard of SL during this period has been shocking.

Also provides a team where local talent can be trailed in. there are plenty of amateur lads who have never been picked up as a kid or started the game late who could perform at that standard.

I get the reason for it but does the cost of the team justify a few players getting game time against adults when we can use a feeder club. And as far as local talent, the days of pulling someone from Wololston, Rylands too see if they are worth a look at are long gone.

Rather than abandoning the the idea of the reserves for lack of a meaningful comp, isn't that local feeder system another thing to fix together with the contract structure of those on the fringes?

We need to have a bigger pool and the ability to keep our fish's longer on the proviso that if they don't make it as they have been 'living the dream' a bit longer, then they have a back up plan......a holistic community approach

All very simplistic I know but worth a punt

I don't get the bigger pool if the fish swimming in the pool are not up to standard. If there don't hit the mark by 20yrs old they probably never will, so why not cull the fish. This should make the amateur game and the lower divisions stronger, but that isn't the case a lot of these players leave the game but that isn't the fault of the club, its a sound reason as to why they never made it.

Warrington, and maybe other clubs too, have had players kicking about on the books that everyone with eyes in their head can see are not up to the grade nor ever will be. Just a waste of everyones time. Those not up to the grade should be released from the game whilst they are still young enough to go back into full time education/apprenticeships rather than keeping a 23 year old hanging on with a dream.

Well that's funny because I'm aware of a few amateur lads that had trails in the reserves over the last few years.

And they are now where ??. Did they get trials or were they making up numbers for the reserves without having to pay someone . I am being cynical but its not beyond possibility that this is the case, as it used to be with the old A-Team., anyone who went to the A-Team games at Wilderspool will remember the team sheets with A N Other littered through for both teams. Great days and great memories but I really think people are forgetting the truth at times of how it used to be.

Except that its possible at the moment that Rochdale cant even afford to have those "local lads" in the team in the first place, hence they arent being pushed out by the Warrington dual reg player, the dual reg players are plugging Rochdale's gaps.

Great point. Those in favour of reserves point out the good that it can do for those 1 or 2 guys who make it as a late developer but don't consider where it leaves the 6/7/8 youngsters you kept hanging around that still don't end up making it.

Yes it's harsh to have to make decisions about players at a young age, but professional sport is harsh and tough decisions have to be made even if you don't like it.

I'm firmly of the view that we don't have the quality numbers of players to support an extra tier within the game.

The point of a reserve grade is to provide a bridge from of U19's to SL, not to be a holding pen for average players. Each player in a reserve league should be playing for the chance of a SL shirt.

But practically speaking where do you find these players to populate this league? You could argue that SL itself doesn't have enough quality to fill up each of the 12 first teams.

Is it viable to run an entire reserve league, of 204 players each week, just to bridge the gap for the handful of U19 players that look good enough but need a little more time?

The game would struggle to do that now, and with general RL participation on a 10-year decrease of nearly 40%, longer term, there'll be even less quality to support a reserve tier of any reasonable standard.

So to the change the question - assuming running an old school reserve grade isn't a viable solution (and lets be honest - it isn't - there's a solid reason Warrington and Hull have just ditched theirs, be it financial, player quality, or just numbers available, and only 6/24 clubs now have one) - what is the answer to giving 18-21 y/o players meaningful game time? Modify dual-reg? Clubs running merged reserve teams? Expand U19's to U21s? Integrate the U19/21s into the senior tiers, and allow them to compete in L1 or Championship? Adopt a proper professional feeder club approach like the NRL?

We seem to be in a catch 22 situation here. A long term plan is obviously not on the agenda because time will tell that unless the game is expanded from its roots it will disappear & very quickly once it starts. Unfortunately, overseas players will never be available in sufficient quality or quantity to save the English game so unless the RFL are planning to use East European labour the game needs to grow from within . A mighty oak with diseased roots can't be substituted by a eucalyptus tree.

I disagree that the game needs expansion to survive. In many instances that is the very thing that kills it.

Quote ="ninearches"We seem to be in a catch 22 situation here. A long term plan is obviously not on the agenda because time will tell that unless the game is expanded from its roots it will disappear & very quickly once it starts. Unfortunately, overseas players will never be available in sufficient quality or quantity to save the English game so unless the RFL are planning to use East European labour the game needs to grow from within . A mighty oak with diseased roots can't be substituted by a eucalyptus tree.'" The RFL 2016 Annual report cites 2,017 registered teams and 55,257 players (up 2% on 2015). Look at how organised the NRL player development is organised https://playnrl.com/game-development-regions/ Nothing will kill the game quicker than a dull, uninspiring spectacle at the elite level.

Quote ="ninearches"We seem to be in a catch 22 situation here. A long term plan is obviously not on the agenda because time will tell that unless the game is expanded from its roots it will disappear & very quickly once it starts. Unfortunately, overseas players will never be available in sufficient quality or quantity to save the English game so unless the RFL are planning to use East European labour the game needs to grow from within . A mighty oak with diseased roots can't be substituted by a eucalyptus tree.'" The RFL 2016 Annual report cites 2,017 registered teams and 55,257 players (up 2% on 2015). Look at how organised the NRL player development is organised https://playnrl.com/game-development-regions/ Nothing will kill the game quicker than a dull, uninspiring spectacle at the elite level.