You make an interesting point, what is the minimum Powell has to do next year to remain in post. If it's finishing higher than 2nd/3rd bottom, will 3rd/4th bottom suffice? Probably one for a new thread tbh.

Arsenal finished outside of the top 4 last year on the last day or last few games was it (dont follow avidly) were many gooners calling for his head then or have they bought into the plan or as Powelly puts it "process"?

It has to be playoffs surely? We are only 8 points off the playoff spots now, if we aren't 4 wins better off at this stage next season I sincerely hope that we have a new coach in place.

Regarding the players leaving I wish them well, they're all honest professionals and I hope they find a good contract elsewhere.

So if we just make the playoffs next year then where is the progress under Powell?
We were doing that consistently under TS & SP without the accompanying dross in between.
Are you saying we have to wait until 2024 Sally?

We should be up there with the other clubs that spend as much as us.

Top 6 then? I always thought that Wigan, St Helens, Leeds, Catalans, Hull were at the cap. Maybe even Huddersfield.

To be clear, I don't think just making the playoffs is enough, if we lose to a better team on the day then that's tolerable, but we absolutely can't have a playoff performance like the last 2 playoff games we were involved in. I'd want us reaching the end of the season in the sort of form Leeds are in this year so we feel at least we have a punchers chance of making the grand final. Scraping in on bad form, knowing that the final is unlikely won't be enough IMO, we will need to have shown we can consistently compete with the teams at the top. There won't be much cap space available for recruitment in 2024 so the 2023 team simply has to perform.

Gf for me next year, obviously a gf win is the aim, but after all this, I'd be expecting a gf appearance as minimum.

It has to be seen in the context of doing a mass rebuild which is something we haven't done for a while, so it will naturally take longer to get the new set up bedded in. Powell is bringing in entirely his own players to play his own system and those might not suit a new coach so if we change coach again next season we'll have to accept we're resetting the clock to zero again and give the new coach his own grace period and new money to pay players off/bring in new players which might not get us where we want to be any quicker.

As long as I can see a coach is moving the team in the right direction I'm on board with keeping them, where Wire need to improve is spotting the plateau point where a coach has taken the team as far as he can and they are just going to tread water from that point onwards. You could argue that Cullen, TS and Price all reached this point about 2 to 3 seasons before they left.

GF is my expectation every year. It's only happened 4 in times 27 years. I suppose it's really 4 times in 13 years of realistic expectation. Still not enough.

Far better than the previous 20 odd years though isn't it? A couple of hub caps and 4 challenge cups mean it's been a good time to be a wire considering previous history. I'm hoping for another decade like that starting now with maybe a GF win to Complete the set. It would be nice to come away from old Trafford smiling for a change.

Tough crowd FMC.

IF the team gels it could be on the cards though, IF our new pack plays to its potential then we should make plenty of metres in all games and be playing mostly on the front foot. Ifs!

Agree with all of this apart from resetting the clock to zero.

Leeds changed coach in April when they were on 3 points (P9 W1 D1 L7) and in 11th position in the league (below where we are now) .

Lohan Smith has not had the opportunity to bring in his own players. Leeds haven't made the argument of resetting the clock, time to bed in etc

Instead they have got on with the job of qualifying for the playoffs.

I guess that's what champion sides do - not make excuses.

If Rohan Smith had come to Warrington I wonder if the results would have been as good or if we'd be hearing about how Smith's methods were alienating members of the squad etc.

Any new coach that tried to change the general lethargy that has been tolerated, for far too long would have been met wholesale opposition.

If you was only working for half a day. and a new boss was appointed and told you, that you had to put a full day in from now on, for the same pay, what would be your reaction?

Do all those clubs spend full cap with 2 x marquee allowances? I should imagine we have one of the highest, if not the highest, wage costs.

We will never know. The only thing we can see for certain is the league table.

Anyhow, the point was to challenge this "time to bed in" bs. If Lohan Smith was still languishing at 10th or 11th in the league he would be under pressure, not in a comfort blanket.

Boss - genuine question when do you think this lethargy dates back to ? Did Smith create it? Pre Smith? The Smith period when Cullen's signings had gone? Did Price see it and not want to rock the boat?

I think it started towards the end of the Smith era, when he just seemed to lose interest, took a backseat and allowed Agar to run the show for him.

Price was allowed to stay here for far too long and the situation festered under his tenure.

The fact that Price left Wire on his own terms, without being dismissed. reflects very badly on the Warrington hierarchy.

He should have gone after we lost the home playoff game in 2020 when we were beaten 14-27 by Hull FC. Not the benefit of hindsight as many were calling for it at the time. Not least because this was the 2nd successive time we had exited the playoffs at home in the first round. But in classic Warrington fashion we had to wait until he had done it a 3rd successive time.

Rohan Smith has had to make changes too, but at least he's had a reasonable forward pack as a basis. For me, everything starts in the forwards and our pack, for the most part of this season, has been too small so we've been on the back foot for most of it.

I hope it can all be blamed on the pack.

If Jack Hughes was ever a powerful runner then I am the Pope.

A team with a good pack and poor backs will 9/10 beat a team with a poor pack and good backs. A loss of control in the ruck area is a lost game - imo - and that control is gained by the forwards.

R Smith, with a relatively stronger pack is going to have an advantage over a similarly changed/turned around side possessing a smaller pack.

Huddersfield have definitely benefited from having some good forwards this season.

Over the last 15 years apart from the dominance of Leeds / Wigan / Saints there has been a number of teams that have lifted the LLS, Picked up the odd challenge cup win or appeared in finals. Us, Hull FC, Huddersfield or Catalan etc.
Now even though we can try and pretend that we were close to lifting the SL trophy we didnt and have been a million miles away.

So even though we appear a million miles away I can appreciate the direction the club has provided and the challenge that they have laid down to Powell. For years many people have said that the club has carried passengers (loyal servants in their comfort zone) on a gravy train.
This year has been tough to watch but I appreciate Powells hard d stance.
I am not yet convinced that he can take us all the way but i hope the minimum is that he brings a professionalism and ruthlessness to the team that we have not seen for a while.

If I was given the choice right now of swapping places with Huddersfield, Hull FC, Cas and Catalan i would take our position. Yep, terrible season, but not a great previous 10 years but the decision has been made to make the hard calls to do something about it rather than just making a few tweaks round the edges and hope that it comes off.

Let's get things right. That 2019 challenge cup win was because the players wanted to win that game but how many all or nothing games over the last 10 years have the players not quite had the desire, prep or mental toughness to overcome the opposition. At the start of the season I dint expect this scale of clear out but now it is happening I am on board with it.