Failing to finish first does not necessarily eliminate having to make the Club Call decision. The teams who finish second or third can still have to make it, depending on the results of the first play-off round. There is no guaranteed escape from the silliness of Club Call, other than finishing fourth or below. Another reason why first place is no bad thing should be end up there.

I understand where Dropkick is coming from. I would perform self-surgery to remove one of my kidneys if it guaranteed us a Grand Final win. Just one win is all I want. One would be sufficient to last me 20 years. Recalling the elimination semi in 2011 still forces me to curl up in the foetal position and shake, as I think it was the best shot we ever had at winning it. Strangely, last year’s defeat at OT didn’t hurt quite as much, but still ruined the next four weeks of my life. I didn’t think we had a realistic chance of winning it this year, so had almost given up, but as we approach the business end of the season, we look like our old legs might just have one last realistic shot at it.

Failing to win it this year will probably close the door for a few years at least. We have to win at OT this year. We have to do it. Given our recent cup successes, winning the Grand Final is worth so much more to the club than any further Challenge Cup could possibly be.

Even at 16:10 last Sunday afternoon, the Huddersfield quarter-final meant very little to me. I wanted to win it, but it may as well have been a home league game against London for all I cared. As such, I wouldn’t have been remotely bothered if we’d lost it, as the two weeks’ rest in August would have done us good in pursuing the main prize. However, come the final hooter after another great cup display, I was very pleased that we won and now feel that we are too close to winning the cup again to not go all-out for it.

All this talk is, frankly, a bit silly. We all know there is no rule in life or rugby league that says you can’t win both trophies. Frivolously sacrificing one does not mean you will win the other. You cannot horse- trade in kidneys or Challenge Cup semi-final defeats in order to guarantee a Grand Final win. So since we’re already in the semis, we may as well try and win the cup and take it from there.

The same goes for top spot. There is nothing negative that can come from finishing there, so why some people seem to think we shouldn’t bother aiming for it - or even try to throw it away should we somehow find ourselves there with a couple of games left - is beyond me.

you know, on that point, last years finish, confused teh bejesus out of me, normally, say in recent years we get all hyped up on expectation that this will be our year,a dn go out in the play offs, i go hoem bitterly disapointed, throw my shirt on the stairs, mutter like , then wake up the following day, then go about my life, watching the rest of the play offs, muttering that "we could fooking beat this shower of e" then the GF then off into internationals and the beer festival.

Last year, was weird...

Last year i woke up on sunday morning, and the rugby season was over, completely over, no other games to watch, it was weirdly abrupt, it was lke waking up that Sunday morning and being told Princess Di had been killed....it was hard to process

I wouldn't have thought so and there is still a very decent chance of us finishing in the top 2 anyway, no need to lower your expectations just yet.

When we lost, i struggled coming on the forum, i struggled talking about rugby, i didn't talk about it and wasn't that excited about the start of this season.
It temporarily ruined rugby for me.

Whilst it hurt like hell, I soon got over being beaten at Old Trafford.

It was the G/F eliminator against Leeds in 2011 that hurt more than any other game EVER. I was numb & couldn't really talk about the game for about 5 months. I have never watched the match back on Sky + & never will.

That was the same for me. After the final whistle me Dad and brother didn't talk to me for about half an hour, I was not in a good place. Fortunately there were no Leeds fans on the tram back to Manc because I might have been stupid and kicked off (not proud of it but it's honestly how I felt).

Now obviously I'm biased but Wembley is a much better event than the GF. Because it's in the day time it feels more pleasant and part of an all day event, it being in London means it feels like Rugby League's come to London, not just the two clubs. Every time we've been to Wembley I've ended up chatting with fans from various clubs on the tube and in the pub where the GF was much more adversarial between the fans. The GF has non of that atmosphere - it's certainly not Manchester because the Magic Weekend was brilliant. I don't think Old Traff helps because it's really not a nice stadium compared to Wembley or the Ethiad - it feels like a prison.

TBH if we don't win it this year we need to admit that there are some players who're mentally not up to it. I have my doubts about Briers truth be told, hopefully being at the final last year will calm him if we make it this time, but he looked like the event went to him. If we were to make it and lose again I think it'd be time for a clear out and start restructuring with a young side (which we're going to have to do anyway next year to some extent).

I've been waiting to get that off my chest since October...

I agree with pretty much every word you said in this post, but this line in particular matches my feelings exactly.

I don't need to see Warrington win trophies every year. I grew up with little interest in rugby but the knowledge that Wigan were the only team that ever won. I then got into the game and watched us win nothing at all for 15 years. I don't expect much.

I do however have a desperate need to see us clinch it once. By "it" I refer to the genuine title of "Champions". Not some blag "Challenge Cup Champions" that loads seem to latch on to when an emotionally exhausted Lee Briers got his words in a twist during an interview in 2009, and not some blag "Well we finished top so we're the real champions anyway - imagine telling Alex Ferguson that Man United have to win a play off blah blah blah" consolidation straw that loads tried to clutch at in 2011. Just genuine bona fide no argument whatsoever Super League Champions. That means winning the Grand Final.

We've been so tantalisingly close and recent failure has hurt ten times more than 15 years of nothing ever did. If we had won last October I'd be a different man where rugby is concerned. Completely relaxed and enjoying it come what may. We didn't though, and as you say, if we don't this year there's a very real chance we might not anytime soon. Our golden era for those of us not born in the mid-50's will see us declared in history as "Cup Kings", "Wembley Wizards" or some other title which is very nice but isn't the one I want. "Champions".

Just once. Please.

All this should make for a fascinating team selection tomorrow, to see how TS views the priorities.

Do you not feel that the current play off system does devalues the Grand Final though? Stupid stuff like the Club Call, getting another go if you lose the first game and having ove half the teams in the play offs does make it a Mickey Mouse system. I think I'd be more in agreement with you if it was a straight 4 or even 6 team play off, which culminated in the final at OT. As it is I really do find it hard to support the whole farce of the end of season, even though we're in with a shot. When leeds have won it twice from 5th it leaves me feeling like the CC has more validity than the SL system.

That said I don't disagree with you about wanting the win. I don't think Sky (and even some of the other clubs if we're being honest) take us seriously even now. We're still upstart Warrington, having a try but ultimately a 2nd rate club. The only way we're going to change that is by winning the league, not just threatening to.

I don't have Sky Sports or watch it, so can't comment on that, but I think that's spot on about other clubs. We won't be seen as a genuine big club until we have that title. I'll be honest and admit that I won't personally see us as a genuine big club without it either.

As for the first part of your post, well that's a matter of opinion. I have my own views on the current play off system and agree it's far from perfect, but the rules are the rules and everyone knows them. Whatever needs to be done to be crowned Champions is what I want us to do, and I certainly won't ever see that title as devalued. Leeds pulled off two unbelieveable feats in the last two play off campaigns and earned it.

All finishing 5th meant for Leeds was that they couldn't afford to lose any matches in the play-offs. So they didn't. Twice.

This is almost a whole new thread in itself, but:

Top five most painful Wire moments, ever, in order:

1) Leeds elimination semi-final 2011 (head and shoulders above any other defeat, ever). Just like Fatbelly and Yed, I couldn’t talk about it or watch it back, but eventually did just three days before the start of the 2012 season, and I needed beer in order to do it. Instant delete and never mention it again. Today’s discussion is slightly cathartic and the closest I will ever get to group therapy.

2) Grand Final 2012. For obvious and aforementioned reasons.

3) Semi-final v Wigan2004. Third semi-final defeat in four years was almost too much to bear.

4) Wembley 1990. As a 12-year-old, after all the build-up, I just couldn’t compute that we hadn’t won. I was such a little mard about it that I even refused to watch the team come back on the bus, even though it passed within 30 yards of my house.

5) Getting absolutely pummelled at home by Wigan in August 2002 and thinking, ‘We are actually going to be relegated this season. It is really going to happen”.

A 2013 Challenge Cup Final defeat to Wigan would not come close to making this list.

A 2013 Grand Final defeat to anyone would shoot straight in at no.1 and possibly result in my abandoned car being found at a lonely beauty spot.

1) Leeds play off 2011
2) Grand Final 2012
3) Huddersfield play off 2010
4) Hull FC play off 2005
5=) Every trip I ever made to Knowsley Road (too many to remember)



^This.

If we were to lose in the CC Final I would be miffed but by the time we were passing the RAC HQ on the M6 I would be back to normal


If we were to lose in the G/F it would still only make my number 2 of worst defeats with the 2011 defeat to Leeds being still at the top.

About 2 months after the Leeds defeat I was talking to someone who worked for the club and they said that they actually cried when they got home that night.

I think we were all so certain of a G/F appearance not because of arrogance, but because of the honestly held belief we had in our team. We were by far & away in the very best team in SL & played some fantastic RL. That really was our year.

2010 against huddersfield was pretty bad as well.

For some stupid reason i'd agreed to go on a date that night, for some equally stupid reason i'd also decided to put some sort of bieber-ish swooping quiff in my hair at the time, which lead to much taking by the bro's at the game.

that second half was excruciating, as there was a couple of VR decisions, that took forever and the second half was never going to end. as it closer to the end, i started movnig towards the steps, then down the steps, then onto the apron, then mathers went or bust and we all know how that ends.

Needless to say, it wasn't the best first impression i've ever made, turned up late, scowled for most of the evening, and she took the out of my hair.

Losing any play off game (aside from the week one farce) this year will be the hardest of the lot to take for me, whether it be an eliminator or the final itself.

I think a number of this team are genuinely in last chance saloon - obviously those that are definitely leaving, but also a couple of key others who are staying but whose powers will be waning with age - and if it doesn't happen it might be years before it does. If at all.

This year feels like now or never. That's why all my eggs would personally be in the Super League basket if I was picking the team for forthcoming league and cup games.

Grand final defeat wasn't that bad because I had a massive hangover.

1989 CC semi-final at Maine Road was the worst for me. Still rankles.

Well this (barring a final, maybe a playoff) will probably be my last live game of the season, so hopefully it's a good one.

I was in a pub in Oxford, full of Yawnion players, with 4 tellies showing other sport and my one telly in the corner showing the League. I scared two thirds of the pub away with my *colourful* language. The landlord gave me a free pint in sympathy though when we lost.

You're right about Hodgson, the guy seems to take hammer every tackle, I'm the first to comment how softer the game seems to be going but I seriously doubt B.Hodgson agrees, it seems every player puts that extra effort in to smash him yet up he gets, time after time!

Should be a decent game on Sunday, I didn't expect HKR to beat Catalans away or Saints away and don't expect anything here, but they have surprised me recently, with much to do with the blistering starts Rovers have had on their opp. With Wire's famed fast starts, this is going to be crucial to the eventual outcome.

Some of the stuff in this thread is unbelievable.

"Wouldn't be bothered if we lost in Challenge Cup final"

"Rather rest players for CC semi and final than a league match against Hull KR"


Little more than four years ago and people would have given up their first born for the sniff of a CC final.

PY, it's not so often that you and I agree, but I'm with you on this.

And even more,
I'd take a loss against London in the semi, and first and second round defeats in the play offs if I could have an England World Cup win in November.

PY, it's not so often that you and I agree, but I'm with you on this.

And even more,
I'd take a loss against London in the semi, and first and second round defeats in the play offs if I could have an England World Cup win in November.