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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"As usual with these posts there is a distinct lack of suggested alternatives, just "time for a change".
The most likely change would be:
Steve McNamara
Daryl Powell
Paul Anderson
Richard Agar'"
I bet Leicester City were happy plodding along with a coach that won them a trophy one year and nothing whatsoever the next.....because the usual suspects would have been Harry Redknapp, Roy Hodgson or Martin O'Neil ??
why go for those second rate coaches you mention that have proved time and time again they don't win things....
I'd rather try something different and go for Michael Monaghan or even Brett Hodgson....... totally unproven its clear to see but what is there to lose?
We can buy anyone we like what a horrible arrogant thing to say but its true.... and we are stone cold bottom of the league with a run of tough fixtures to come....
clearly Warrington are not an attacking force neither are they defensively sound, the two above players excelled in both aspects. If Smith was sacked in favour of either of those, I'd feel more optimistic than I do now.....
what crumb of comfort do you have right now.......?? |
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| Quote ="the flying biscuit"for once I cant find any fault with one of your posts..........
I struggle to find worse recruitment from a man with the biggest wallet available to him...'"
My time here is now complete praise from the biscuit 
In all seriousness though, I'd struggle to name a less threatening right wing partnership in SuperLeague than Evans and Russell. Only thing Evans offers is his defence, because he never passes, and last night it was abysmal
Against teams with pace that backline is getting destroyed every week. Blame solely at Smiths door
Yes we'll improve on the last two showings, but lose next week and there's a good chance of being 8 behind leaders, and its a long way back from there |
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"As usual with these posts there is a distinct lack of suggested alternatives, just "time for a change".
The most likely change would be:
Steve McNamara
Daryl Powell
Paul Anderson
Richard Agar'"
Would not be happy with any of those to be fair. |
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"As usual with these posts there is a distinct lack of suggested alternatives, just "time for a change"'"
You must have missed Page 1 where Quote ="Wires71"
I would scout around for world class coaches in the ilk of
Des Hasler
Craig Bellamy
Wayne Bennett
We have the cash to tempt them.
Failing that make an offer to Daryl Powell. '" |
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Isn't it good for the game to have different teams having the ability to win games ? Just like Wigan ,Saints & Leeds we don't have a God given right to finish top & win every trophy & it would be a pretty poor & stagnant league that had four top teams with all the good players while the others were playing also rans. Considering we are supposed to have a great academy system we should be top of the league for years to come once it starts to bear fruit.
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| Quote ="the flying biscuit"I bet Leicester City were happy plodding along with a coach that won them a trophy one year and nothing whatsoever the next.....because the usual suspects would have been Harry Redknapp, Roy Hodgson or Martin O'Neil ??
why go for those second rate coaches you mention that have proved time and time again they don't win things....
I'd rather try something different and go for Michael Monaghan or even Brett Hodgson....... totally unproven its clear to see but what is there to lose?
'"
What is there to lose....a lot. We topped the league last year, got to two finals and have just beaten Brisbane so that's the current benchmark. If we bring someone else in then we need to be improving on that otherwise it was a bad decision.
The "what is there to lose" argument is valid when the club is so bad that you don't mind taking a gamble on anyone but even there it doesn't always work out - like when struggling football clubs take a punt on guys like Di Canio, Remi Garde - but when you are in that situation and going down anyway there's nowhere to fall from. If we go from Tony Smith to a punt on the unknown there are high risks of us sliding down the table, losing players and then looking back and saying the Smith era was great, we lost 2 games and then got rid what a decision. |
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"What is there to lose....a lot. We topped the league last year, got to two finals and have just beaten Brisbane so that's the current benchmark. If we bring someone else in then we need to be improving on that otherwise it was a bad decision.
The "what is there to lose" argument is valid when the club is so bad that you don't mind taking a gamble on anyone but even there it doesn't always work out - like when struggling football clubs take a punt on guys like Di Canio, Remi Garde - but when you are in that situation and going down anyway there's nowhere to fall from. If we go from Tony Smith to a punt on the unknown there are high risks of us sliding down the table, losing players and then looking back and saying the Smith era was great, we lost 2 games and then got rid what a decision.'"
Best post all day .
I'm currently happy with the way the club is off the pitch too , wouldn't like to have seen pictures of the players all out on the lash after last nights defeat . |
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| Quote ="Wires71"
Des Hasler
Craig Bellamy
Wayne Bennett
We have the cash to tempt them.
Failing that make an offer to Daryl Powell. '"
I'd be interested in NRL supercoaches if they are available but I think we might be over optimistic - why would you leave the NRL to come to Warrington, [ireally[/i. These guys will not be badly paid over there and I'm not sure given the weakness of the pound that we are really able to massively outspend the NRL teams.
I think Daryl Powell is a good coach but I find it hard to see a compelling argument that he's better than Tony Smith, other than the "make a change and hope". He's been consistent with getting Castleford to punch above their weight but its like taking David Moyes to United, you never know whether that will translate to winning Grand Finals. We have been top of the league and losing finals under Tony Smith, so presumably anything less than delivering the Grand Final would be viewed as a failure for Powell.
Given all the options available Smith is the best chance for us of winning SL. If Craig Bellamy became available then I'd be interested but if it is a case of Powell, McNamara, Anderson or some unknown unproven coach then that sort of change would be change for changes sake and hoping something will stick, rather than a credible move of "this is the man with a peerless pedigree who will take us to the next level." |
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there is a significant lack of decent talent in the market at the moment....why else would you sign Kevin Brown.
No more Matt Kings, Joel Monaghans, Michael Monaghans etc etc.
Our recruitment has been very very very average since we signed Daz Clarke.
Livett looks a real prospect though...and I hope Savelio can kick on.
Anyone saying "we are too good not to make the play-offs"...did you watch Leeds last year? If we don't start winning soon...the pressure on Smith will result in change.
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| Quote ="Oxford Exile"
Anyone saying "we are too good not to make the play-offs"...did you watch Leeds last year? If we don't start winning soon...the pressure on Smith will result in change.'"
Why did Leeds not get rid of Brian McDermott last year?
Talking of McDermott - if Leeds did get rid of him this year, would we be happy with him replacing Smith at Warrington? |
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Whenever we do change managers, we should follow the saints example and get a statue of the manager outside the ground.
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| Quote ="ninearches" Just like Wigan ,Saints & Leeds we don't have a God given right to finish top & win every trophy.'"
I don't think that is what anyone is expecting. A GF win in 8* years is not too much to ask is it?
* Probably make that 9 years as the signs our that our backline is too poor to threaten the top sides. If only we knew we needed to strengthen with a centre and winger in the close season... |
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But would the reaction have been as bad if a big name team had beaten us last night,Saints ,Wigan or Leeds ? Maybe it is better to accept that we weren't so bad last night & that Cas were b*oo*y good & deserved the victory. It's a long season that has just started & won't be over till Shaun Wane sings.
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"As usual with these posts there is a distinct lack of suggested alternatives, just "time for a change".
The most likely change would be:
Steve McNamara
Daryl Powell
Paul Anderson
Richard Agar'"
The only 'likely' one from your list is Powell... I would say someone like Michael Monaghan or Brett Hodgson are more likely than the other 3
I dont see why the next coach has to have SL experience. Wane hadn't coached a SL team before he got the Wigan job and you're championing him a few pages back (even it it was just for bites) |
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"Why did Leeds not get rid of Brian McDermott last year?
Talking of McDermott - if Leeds did get rid of him this year, would we be happy with him replacing Smith at Warrington?'"
because he won the treble. and no..wouldn't be happy with him at our place. |
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| Quote ="Oxford Exile"because he won the treble. and no..wouldn't be happy with him at our place.'"
If you listen to the Leeds fans, it was Sinfield who was doing the coaching, & McDermott was just brewing the tea. |
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I don't see the love in with Powell
Is Michael McGuire not worth taking a punt one
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Quote ="morleys_deckchair"
I dont see why the next coach has to have SL experience. Wane hadn't coached a SL team before he got the Wigan job and you're championing him a few pages back (even it it was just for bites)'"
The issue is that expectations are high now so its not the time to take a gamble. Last year we finished 1st and made two Grand Finals so the only way you can improve on that is winning a title and anything less would be deemed a failure otherwise we may as well have kept Smith.
Appointing an ex player like Hodgson, Monaghan would be the equivalent of Man U hiring Giggs as manager or Arsenal replacing Wenger with Patrick Vieira. You could make an argument for it but it would be a very risky option.
Shane Wane did very well as a new coach and I would have him at Warrington I just don't think its very likely he would leave Wigan for us. To be fair though most years he gets as much stick from the Wigan fans as Smith gets from ours. So does Brian McDermott at Leeds.
Lee Radford is another who came in inexperienced and people thought he was the cheap yes man option but he has improved Hull, although it took a few years and expectations at Hull were lower at the time.
But there are lots of other examples of inexperienced coaches that have crashed and burned in SL. Look at James Lowes with us, or Iestyn Harris or the other Tony Smith that was at Wakefield.
The other problem with bringing in an inexperienced coach is that the way the fans will accept them will depend on how they viewed them as a player, rather than any objective opinion about their coaching experience. For instance the likes of Willie Poching, Allan Hunte, Gary Chambers are more experienced coaches than Hodgson or Monaghan but I bet our fans would react with disappointment if any of those three were brought in to replace Smith.
Another practical issue with Hodgson or Monaghan would be getting a work permit to be head coach, a quick scan through the criteria for RFL endorsement of a work permit suggests they might struggle to meet it. If they leave their current positions they will need to apply for a new work permit and Theresa May is making sure that we get net migration down to controllable levels.
media.therfl.co.uk/docs/Governin ... 0FINAL.pdf |
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Quote ="morleys_deckchair"
I dont see why the next coach has to have SL experience. Wane hadn't coached a SL team before he got the Wigan job and you're championing him a few pages back (even it it was just for bites)'"
The issue is that expectations are high now so its not the time to take a gamble. Last year we finished 1st and made two Grand Finals so the only way you can improve on that is winning a title and anything less would be deemed a failure otherwise we may as well have kept Smith.
Appointing an ex player like Hodgson, Monaghan would be the equivalent of Man U hiring Giggs as manager or Arsenal replacing Wenger with Patrick Vieira. You could make an argument for it but it would be a very risky option.
Shane Wane did very well as a new coach and I would have him at Warrington I just don't think its very likely he would leave Wigan for us. To be fair though most years he gets as much stick from the Wigan fans as Smith gets from ours. So does Brian McDermott at Leeds.
Lee Radford is another who came in inexperienced and people thought he was the cheap yes man option but he has improved Hull, although it took a few years and expectations at Hull were lower at the time.
But there are lots of other examples of inexperienced coaches that have crashed and burned in SL. Look at James Lowes with us, or Iestyn Harris or the other Tony Smith that was at Wakefield.
The other problem with bringing in an inexperienced coach is that the way the fans will accept them will depend on how they viewed them as a player, rather than any objective opinion about their coaching experience. For instance the likes of Willie Poching, Allan Hunte, Gary Chambers are more experienced coaches than Hodgson or Monaghan but I bet our fans would react with disappointment if any of those three were brought in to replace Smith.
Another practical issue with Hodgson or Monaghan would be getting a work permit to be head coach, a quick scan through the criteria for RFL endorsement of a work permit suggests they might struggle to meet it. If they leave their current positions they will need to apply for a new work permit and Theresa May is making sure that we get net migration down to controllable levels.
media.therfl.co.uk/docs/Governin ... 0FINAL.pdf | |
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| Quote ="Oxford Exile"because he won the treble. and no..wouldn't be happy with him at our place.'"
so a treble winning coach wouldn't be welcome here, but someone with no experience would.... |
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| Quote ="Bobby Digital"
Is Michael McGuire not worth taking a punt one'"
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Do you really want his type of rugby that bores the pants off people????
It's horrible, and he's been responsible for introducing some 'nasty' tackling technique.
I find that absolutely abhorant.
Perhaps I'm the only one who's not hacked off with TS.
Not happy at all about our back line (including Lineham).
Russell seems low on confidence and couldn't even catch a cold at the moment. He's a one trick pony and if teams can handle what he does he doesn't offer much else (note I say 'if', as many can't).
Atkins was anonymous in the 1st half last night. He's very strong but not a gifted passer of the ball.
Evans had a shocker - as did some others last night - made a couple of very good tackles (play it back - he did) - but he's not kicked on like I expected him to do from a couple of years ago. He should be challenged this year by King and Livett.
Lineham - one reasonable game doesn't convince me he's top draw given what we paid for him. Now Hardacker and Eden ARE fast.
Let's also not forget that Cas were very good and I can't see many teams getting the better of them if they continue to play like that.
2 games in - frustrated. |
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There are too many fan's pressing the panic button,
we are only 2 game's in and we are calling for Tony's head.
I agree the back line is weak but money is available, so who can we tempt to the H.J.
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|  Quote ="A MIDDLETON"There are too many fan's pressing the panic button,
we are only 2 game's in and we are calling for Tony's head.
I agree the back line is weak but money is available, so who can we tempt to the H.J.'"
Rugby league seems to have followed football in calling for coaches head if they lose a game. We've got fans on saints board calling for KC head because we lost to leigh an only won one of our two games this year.
Totally crazy imo
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| Quote ="A MIDDLETON"There are too many fan's pressing the panic button,
we are only 2 game's in and we are calling for Tony's head.
I agree the back line is weak but money is available, so who can we tempt to the H.J.'"
The OP was "As big a fan as I am of Tony Smith, I desperately want us to win the Grand Final. Shaun Wane has won 2 in 4 years. 2017 will be Tony's 8th full year in charge. If we fail again at the big prize this year would it be time to part ways?"
Where is the panic? |
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Wires71 what about this scenario.
It's Warrington v Wigan in the Grand Final again this October. Warrington are 19-2 up at half time but gradually lose grip of the game in the second half as Shaun Wane once again gets Wigan back firing and they fight back with two tries. In the last minute, a Warrington mistake in our own half gives Wigan possession and they score in the corner to make it 19-18. Morgan Escare has the kick to win the game.
If he kicks it, would it be best for the future of the club to replace Tony Smith with Daryl Powell for 2018?
What about if he misses it, does that mean it's best for the future of the club to keep Smith rather than Powell?
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"Wires71 what about this scenario.
It's Warrington v Wigan in the Grand Final again this October. Warrington are 19-2 up at half time but gradually lose grip of the game in the second half as Shaun Wane once again gets Wigan back firing and they fight back with two tries. In the last minute, a Warrington mistake in our own half gives Wigan possession and they score in the corner to make it 19-18. Morgan Escare has the kick to win the game.
If he kicks it, would it be best for the future of the club to replace Tony Smith with Daryl Powell for 2018?
What about if he misses it, does that mean it's best for the future of the club to keep Smith rather than Powell?'"
Yes that's a good question. As I am advocating that the success criteria be established before the season so a loss would see a coach change (as he would have lost 4/4) and a win he would retain the job as he has proven he can win a GF with a team of his own making. I realise that the decision hangs on a knife edge, but sport is like that. |
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