I was just about to say, put Ratchford into the halves and give Thewlis some game time at fullback where he belongs. Put Wrench on the wing and have Minikin at centre.

But then I kind of thought to myself, Mata'utia has looked better in the spine than he has at Centre. He's filled in at Fullback a couple of times this season. And with Dufty probably coming in, Thewlis will either get no game time over Minikin or Wrench, or he's going to be shoved out to the wing. At this point I think we might have to accept Thewlis won't get his chance at Fullback for a couple of seasons, so commit to him as the Winger with Wrench at Centre for now. Put Ratchford at Scrum Half and get a head start on next seasons plans. Putting Williams at Stand Off where he's then on the left where he looks more comfortable. Then when Dufty comes in, I have confidence that Wrench and Thewlis will have fully earned their spots. And Mata'utia finally gets pushed out.

I'm quite tired of the constant changes to the team. I'd be happy to start the same team for the final 8 games, pending no injuries. Something like Mata'utia at Fullback, Williams and Ratchford in the halves, Harrison and Bullock starting at prop.

And adding onto other posts above, Sandow used to get us on the front foot with an early 40/20 attempt which he wasn't too bad at. Unfortunately, I don't have an ounce of trust in Williams' kicking game, and I don't think Ratchford is as smart as he should be with it at his age. What's so depressing about it, is that it's not even a basic kicking game, it's actually bad. It's always too short, too low, or directly at the opposition putting them in better field position. To be fair, the chases are usually quite poor on top of it. Saying that, even if we did have perfect kicks into the back corner, our defence would let them march down the field in about 3 tackles anyway.

King actually put together some good form, but I never understood the huge deal he got. Check the post that I made on this that came back up a few days back where I suggested that he had all the tools to do it, big strong fast good defender but lacked the ability to make space for himself or his winger. Still stand by that now, if a good coach can help him unlock that he could be a great centre, if not he’ll be decent back row/centre hybrid.

While King did get kicks, a lot were just when we booted it in the air and hoped for the best in midfield. There was no precision or preparation to finish the play before in a position to kick for him. See the Matt King try in the 2009 semi final, we almost but the tackle before just so we can get the kick position and angle right for the kick.

That is correct, and to be fair, the amount of times Blake Austin kicked the ball dead on the full may have explained Price’s reluctance to go with the tactic. Fair point.

This was a massive part of our threat in the later Cullen/early TS era, Fa'afili was the first but then Hicks, King and Joel Monaghan all played the role of being a target who could out compete defenders for the high ball and Briers at that stage of his career had mastered the attacking kick to the corner better than anyone else in the game. Teams really struggled to defend that. We lost many things when Briers retired but that was a huge part of our attacking game gone immediately.

Fa'afili was not a big guy but he was very good in the air, he had a superb leap, I remember him tormenting GB for the Kiwis a couple of years before we signed him. He copped a bit of stick from our fans as he didn't look like a special winger, he wasn't that quick, prone sometimes to being a bit cumbersome when he was forced to turn and deal with kicks behind him on our own line, but his ability to win aerial balls changed our attack and he had a solid stocky build and could get his head down and finish off moves close to the line without being knocked into touch, which meant he was a perfect recipient for Gleeson's offloads. He did score a lot of tries.

good all round finisher, something matty russell could have only dreamed of

Joel Monaghan, a try per game at Warrington, that's some stat.

But he did ok on his dummy half scoots.

Incredible finisher. One of the best I've seen.

Yes, not that fast, but boy could he score tries.

Tremendous eye/ hand coordination and rarely dropped a ball.

The try at Wembley off Myler`s kick, when he was looking back over his head was a brilliant example.

Thats a good shout, thewlis is the future 1 for sure but ratchford is definitely better at FB than on the halves.

He was the best wire winger I've seen in my time and hicks was second best, what I would have given to ha e seen them both in the same team, Charnley and lineham are probably the next 2 and in that order. There have been other good wingers but with more flaws than those mentioned.

It's a tough call to say who was better. Joel was unbelievable as his record shows. But that hat trick hicks scored at Wembley was unreal. Could well be the best hat trick any wire player has ever scored!! Every try took some amazing finishing that I doubt even Joel could've done.

Agreed Joel is probably the best after bevan IMO. Agreed that it's between those 2 recently though right? Both terrific signings by the club, I'm honoured to have seen them both in the pnb.

IMO Hicks doesn’t get anywhere near enough credit for that hat-trick. If that had been scored by Ryan Hall (incidentally his opposite number that day) there would be endless replays on Sky and the Beeb every time cup season comes around.

Possibly the best value overseas signing for us in the modern era. It was his try that took us back to Wembley in ‘09 too.

I rate Hicks the best winger of my time supporting Wire although an important disclaimer is I missed Dessie's first couple of seasons and when I started watching Dessie was still quick but his hands were a bit flaky and he didn't score many tries. Perhaps if I'd been watching when Dessie first joined from Leigh I would put him no.1.

I remember being really pleased when we signed Hicks, because in the 2000s I was a hardcore NRL follower and Hicks at Penrith and Manly was one of my favourite underrated Aussie players. I always thought he would end up in Super League some time and hoped we'd be in for him. Back in the early 2000s he would come up in discussions around who was the fastest player in rugby league, he was exceptionally quick. He'd lost some of that when he joined us but he was just class all round, an incredible athlete, he didn't seem like he was in his 30s, superb in the air, superb finisher, safe under kicks.

He was only here for 3 years and he missed our best seasons under TS, Joel Monaghan benefited from those, Hicks would have scored a ton of tries in that team. Still, he won back to back Challenge Cups and his Wembley hat trick makes him an icon forever.

Hicks was fantastic, and is associated in my mind with an era of really enjoyable rugby. Not just the Challenge Cups but the Greenshields moment, the attack from our own in goal for the Penny try and some important kicks, Hull away after the hooter for one.

But, Joel was a cut above. His finishing was absolutely top class. Just a fantastic player.

It seems a distant memory those wonderful Challenge Cup years. We tonked a much fancied Leeds twice in the finals - great days.

Around that time we really should have got the gf monkey off our backs and since then, we've been getting further and further away.

2011 was the year. We got it all right until the Leeds game. Threw Westwood back in on one leg, he couldn’t move sideways at all. Panicked at the end and just let it slip. We were the best team that season, peaked then and gradually declined.

Just looked back at the highlights of our 2010 CC win against Leeds.

Some great tries, apart from the Leeds one that clearly went 6 ft or so forward from McGuire to Smith (going by the lines on the Wembley pitch) !

And now saints have mastered that art of passing

Didn't we score 1000+ points that season? Superb team.

In the SL era, Hicks & J Monaghan are the best two in P&B for me.

I remember the time it all went wrong in the GF against Leeds when Waterhouse dropped a pass 5 yards out with no one in front of him. I said then, we've blown it.

Think so, yes. Not including the 100+ we put on Swinton in the cup.

I watched that game back in the first lockdown and couldn’t believe we didn’t win it.

There’s a minute that killed us, we were 40 or so out and Briers is put under pressure on the last, so ends up chipping to the right wing. Leeds get it on half way or so, and they find Ablett one on one with Briers on our own line and he scores.

You can see Westwood stand over Briers and give it to him straight. That minute, we lost the game. It’s often said about staying in the arm wrestle and not breaking first, and we did by a panic under kick pressure and changed the momentum completely.