Six years ago.



I would be very happy with Leed's achievements in the last 8 years. To compare is facile. So far they have had one duff season where they won nothing.



I don't dispute any of that. In fact you make my point for me. You are saying that in your case all that is more important than becoming serial winners.

its not the taking part that counts its the winning, second place is the first loser. and whilst some are happy to be the perennial under achievers many are not and accept that we have no god given right to win the gf but have the team to do so yet seem to fall short. in general the reason for our losses in the finals are very similar and we don't or have not adapted to them this is down to smith

its not fair that when something is done well or we have a good win then its down to ts and his great man management but when we lose its not his fault, its a player not making a pass or knock on that lost us the game. I laugh every time I read about us losing the gf because gidly did not make ONE pass.

getting to finals is part of becoming successful given the funds and players he has had available during his time here we should have won more and the buck stops with him and his selection and tactics

I see the revisionists are out in force again. How has it not sunk in that we actually over achieved last year? The fact that we only had 2 front line props for virtually the whole season was a massive handicap.
As for "ruthless" Saints, their commitment to Cunningham would suggest the contrary.
Please note I have NOT mentioned any of the other injuries because to me the team dealt with them.

You're kidding to say wigan didnt have more cash than us ??
And Widnes were famous for spending what they didnt have, sure it got them two championships ( they had to wait 100 years for it though.) but When Dougie's cheque book moved to Leeds it left widnes in a right mess and a huge sell off of players and relegation followed and also yoyoing in and out of the second tier and playing in Northern rail cups etc

I wouldn't swap what we had or have for what widnes have had to endure.....



they finished runners up in 86 and won the lancashire cup and JPS trophy i think that's fairly dominant. next season they lost two league games all year both to wire and won the league at canter with us and saints both 7 points behind them, they won the jps and lancs cup again. you can see why wire fans got/get excited at even getting near to this side that was on another level to everyone else.

people count the trophies we didn't win but I don't doubt for a minute in that era of Wigan dominance no other club was involved in more finals or semi finals than Warrington, and most of them defeats at the hands of the greatest team ever to play rugby league.

so feel free to rubbish it......i certainly remember when we beat wigan at wilderspool in 1997 it was a great win because we had just sacked Dorahy and were in a right mess, but it didnt feel like any of the wins over Wigan in the late 80's because the wigan team wasnt near the same quality.

I think Tony smith cops some unfair criticism at times because at the end of the day he got you to basically 3 finals last season (counting the hull vs Wire game for shield as one) you might of won only 1 out of 3 but at the end of the day there were 2 other teams challenging for everything (us and Hull) it's better than winning nothing and imo winning the league leaders shield is the biggest achievement because you've been the most consistent team all season. I'm 99% sure you'll win the grand final under Smith at some point, I'd be surprised if you don't win a trophy this season and every season apart from 2015 you've been close to winning something. This might be biased however but the bloke who said he wouldn't swap smith for any one, I guarantee Wane would win more at Wire than smith, you might not like him or his way of playing but at the end of the day he's the best coach in super league

I'm not sure Wane would do quite as well at another club. He's part of a Wigan set up that's Wigan through and through. I think it's unfair if you don't include the likes of Radlinski in contributing to Wane's success.

If Wane was at another club he'd surely do quite well, just maybe not quite as well as inspiring Wigan-produced players in a Wigan system to the sort of ground-out, war of attrition victories we've become accustomed to under his tenure.

* years ago we were a an absolute joke, since Smith has taken over we have had one of the most successful periods in the clubs history, we were 10 points and a bit of luck away from sweeping the lot. Madness to suggest change

But we didn't sweep the lot. We failed to win the GF at the 7th time of asking.

o would add that we lost in a similar fashion or for the same reasons as we usually do. its no coincidense we rarely close out big games.

as I have mentioned smith has been great for us as a club but to basically give him an open ended contract is crazy and still stinks of little club mentality that getting to a final is good and makes the season a success. top their teams only count winning as a success.

Why do people keep going on about history as a reason to retain Smith as coach? History is irrelevant, look at manchester city or chelsea in football, as soon as you get the right owner and you can compete for players, you need to be winning..

Smith has had the most freedom and financial backing out of any coach in the league since he took over.

Zero Grand finals win...

Shaun Wane has regularly out coached him. It's time for a change if this trophyless streak continues.

We have deservedly not won either of the big two trophies for five years because we simply haven't been good enough.

When we knew Morley Carvell Cooper Hodgson Wood and MMonaghan were all leaving (not that long after King and Solomona left as well) our planning of the squad was abysmal. Then Briers retired as well.

We were left with a team that had some brilliant individuals but as a whole package we've been good but not great and at times just average. Deservedly finished 6th the year before and I was only expecting a little better last season because our props were powderpuff for half the game relying on 60 minutes from Hill and Sims and then just making do with whatever tripe or young lads came off the bench is not going to win any big trophies. Plus the lack of true centres at the club and a load of back who are Jack of all positions, masters of none.

I think people get a bit carried away because we have individuals of the calibre of Hill and IMO the best player in the league (maybe alongside Bateman) in Clark, and a little bit of the hangover from the excellent team we had from 2009-2012, people expect us to win things. But I don't think our whole package has good but not great of late. I think we did remarkably well, and it doesn't say a lot for the rest of the league, to reach both finals and top the league table last year.

This year we look much more likely to be a challenge for the two big trophies. Last Saturday I thought the balance of our FB and Wingers looked good and obviously we have a true ball playing half for once. But I still think we're lacking in some areas.

It's only 'time for change' if you have an idea who could be brought in who would be better. It's hard to think of anyone who is more likely to win an SL title for us. Wane works in the Wigan way of things, he won't go anywhere, and I wouldn't want to be playing his style anyway. Daryl Powell looks promising but has won sod all. Cunningham? See Wane. McDermott? - Done a lot at Leeds but their fans want shut, basing his past success on Sinfield, Peacock and the rest, not the coach. I suppose you'll tell me that we should look at Australia but, apart from McGuire's two seasons at the Pies, what Aussie coach has had much success here since John Monie in the 1990s?

Since Smith has taken over, two aussie coaches have won grand finals... there will be a lot of coaches out there that if you gave them the backing Smith has received would have gone one better in grand finals.

Looking at our squad at the start of last season did you honestly believe we were good enough to win the LLS and make both finals? Then subtract Mitchell Dodds...
The one complaint that I think can legitimately be laid is the lack of succession planning.

It doesn't matter... he has had the finances and the time. If we don't have good enough players it is down to the coach, and if the players aren't performing it is down to the coach.

Don't know why the board don't just give you the job Ron.

Stuart Pierce seems to be well into his rugby these days.

Its often said "everyone is entitled to an opinion", I think you are exempt.

Why? Because you don't like the message?

The coach is responsible for recruitment, retention, succession planning, performance and results.

Smith would be rightly praised if he had won the trophies so criticism when we do not is fair.

Tony Smith wants that grin slapping out with a wet kipper.

Time for Smith's post match interview bingo

I'm going for
"a bit sloppy at the play the ball"
"we can take some positives"

So he's happy with our spirit.

B0110CK5

Smith responsible for the assembling the slowest and least creative backline in a good long time. Lots to answer for end of story

for once I cant find any fault with one of your posts..........

I struggle to find worse recruitment from a man with the biggest wallet available to him...

As usual with these posts there is a distinct lack of suggested alternatives, just "time for a change".

The most likely change would be:

Steve McNamara
Daryl Powell
Paul Anderson
Richard Agar