That is utterly irrelevant. St Helens were not as competitive a team as we were this season.

We desperately missed Westwood in that Final. He is still the heart and soul of that team.

Dont understand all the Gidley bashing, from a Wigan fan perspective (me) he was awesome, he ran his blood to water, and I firmly believe if Wire had won, he'd have clearly been MOM. Someone else posted somewhere that if Gidley had been playing for Wigan we'd have beaten you by a lot more. Gidley and Sandow (if he stays) will have you moving round the pitch with ease again next season and you'll be there abouts again at the business end again.

As for Ratchford......I'd have him at Wigan in a heartbeat, he is class!!! When he was at Salford he was unplayable at centre, selected for England etc, Wire buy him and play him everywhere but centre......doh!!!! I agree, if we had Gells and Ratch in the centres at Wigan we would take some stopping.

Thankyou for your contribution to what I thought was a great blood and thunder Grand Final, which was played at a 100 MPH. Your fans were a credit to the club and all the Wire fans we met after the game were extremely gracious in defeat. Keep the faith as you will be competing for the big trophies again next season.


Matt

Totally agree, the talisman.

Perhaps he did play centre at times but he played hb at Salford but Myler was hitting the headlines...very soon after we realised we should have got Ratchford, and so did.
Poor Doc Marwan was gutted.
The deal was done just before he bought the club.

You announced Ratchford'a signing in July 2011, Koukash took over Salford in January 2013.

Sorry Mark but how can you say it's utterlyirrelevant?

Saints were out of the cup early doors, were comfortably in 4th aided and abetted by Catalans end of season implosion two of the top three playing in a hard fought CC Final in tremendous energy sapping heat, the top three playing each other over the final couple of weeks to decide the LLS and the play off order and they even managed to end up with their favourite fixture of the season as their semi final.....the perfect storm

The relevance is the injuries to our front line pack members probably cost us in the end. I did agree that planning your end of season does allow those carrying knocks or those with long minutes to arrive in better shape, but, planning to play Saints at Langtree Park in the semi final isn't a sure fire way of winning the Grand Final

We played an under strength Wigan team in the final and got comfortably outplayed...what makes you think we would have beat them in the semi?

So I'm right thanks.

I'd hardly call 18 months "just before Marwan bought Salford". He probably hasn't even heard of Rugby League in July 2011

I'd be in favour Of The Tim Sheens vote, said this on Saturday. I'd be straight over there dropping a fat sack of money in front of him.


I think also at some point were gonna have to accept, open attractive rugby doesn't get you titles, we've tried it previously, it didn't succeed, we've tried it half dly this year, And it definitely didn't work, time to stop being the good guys abs join the bad guys

Ironic though FMC
Wigan did just that in the final 40 at the HJ and for 80 at OT.
They kept the same shapes and structure in defence but abandoned it in attack.

A few of us who went together on Saturday noted this. We don't dominate like Wigan. We don't have much 'grunt'. And when we do try it, we get penalised! Is that because it's not coached into us?

On an unrelated note, brought myself to watch the highlights last night (and re-depressed myself in the process!) and on telly we looked more 'in it' than it felt on the night. Very contentious call where O'Loughlin drops the ball and we were penalised. The BBC lot called it as harsh. Think they took the two for that as well. Still think there were a few stinkers that didn't go our way, a few balls ripped out that were claimed as knock ons, etc. Ah well. Sheet happens!

You are not a million miles off being top dogs. I think you invested too much money in Sandow, Gidley, Lineham etc. Whilst they are good players they need a good platform to operate from. I think that there is some tinkering to be done to give you more go forward, obviously Cooper will be a major boost next season as will Dodds if he is fit. Personally, I would build a good pack, allow Sandow or Gidley to go to fund it and put my faith in Patton.

No need to let sandow or gidley go it's no coincidence that Patton has started to shine having them two on the training pitch with him.

If Dodds recovers and stays and rhumors are true we will have hill Cooper Dodds Cosby simms philbin king I believe that is good enough and don't really need to look for more.... Money would be better spent on a winter to replace penny and centre to replace Evans if that doesn't happen we will win nothing

Your last sentence... That's silly. We just won a LLS with Evans and Penny!
If a team has the best pack, them they will win. The quality of the backs define by how much that is.
We need a pack that dominates. Our bench v Wigan was 2nd best, so we became bridesmaids.

Philbin and King are not the required standard as yet, and Sims looked outgunned on Saturday.

Well from what I'm hearing i think our pack is going to look pretty tidy next season.....still would love a nice classy centre and a winger though

Ocean Lineham is awful. He'd be an acceptable winger had he come through the Wire academy, but did you pay £100k for him? Terrible signing.

We should have been able to coast out that Wigan game resting players for that last 30mins, then rested them all against hull, and then played an under strength Wigan also without flower and sol.

We would also have had the psychological advantage having beaten them in that 28-35 game.

But we blew it big style, wires finding yet another way to lose

...and so say I

The last time we won the Challenge Cup, our props were Carvel, Hill, Morley and Wood. 3 of these were past their prime, and at the ar5e end of their careers (but still great players). Compare this to what we'll have at our disposal next year. Hill and Cooper, quality. The rest, a concoction of average, not yet good enough, not big enough, injury prone (yet we still bought him) and a Wigan cast off.

If we don't arrest the prop issue (THERE IS AN ISSUE), we'll struggle. Leeds and Stains will be nowhere near as poor sides as they were, and Wigan will have more bodies back.

I just pray that Hill doesn't pick up an injury. If he does, we may as well give up.
Houston, we have a problem.

The signing of a winger(s) is the least of our problems. We have 2 on our books, that score tries for fun. Trouble is, our pigheaded coach doesn't like playing them.

I miss the 2011 style rugby we played. Off the cuff, no plan just go with it. Combine that with good defense and it steads well

Not sure what we are going to get more from Cooper than we are from Sims. If Sims gets a slagging off on here then Cooper will only have a 2 week grace before he is fair game as there stats are very similar
Cooper - Hit Ups 283, Clean Breaks 1,Off Loads 14
Sims - Hit ups 381, Clean Breaks 1, Off Loads 64
After watching Cooper for all his games in the NRL and before they are very similar players either will break the line, but both will get you a quick play the ball.
Cooper doesn't off load but Sims will, Cooper goes in at first receiver and passes before the line, Sims doesn't.
They will both be great for us or next season in very different ways than Hill. Hill makes great yards, is a penalty machine (especially near our own sticks with holding down) but is really slow at the play he ball. Very Different styles and great a great mix.
Not looked at Crosby's stats as he hasn't signed but seems more of a Hill than a Sims
I am looking forward to seeing them all work together as they form a good mix.

Coop has been playing in nrl against tougher defenses so to compare stats could be a little misleading.

Would also say that successfully clubs have had world class centres in the teams. Lyon newlove connoly king etc I personally do jot believe that that's a coincidence and still stand by my statement that with evens n penny in the team we will win love all. Yes packs eine dominant is important however to win a game we have to score more than the other team.