I wouldn't say Catalan were competitive from the word go. Yes they won their first game v Wigan, but still finished bottom of the pile with only seven/eight wins IIRC.

Stranger things have happened then Celtic getting to Wembley, but like most things in RL like new clubs and the Magic Weekend, the fans expect them to run before they can walk and develop a backing.

I just think the case should be that they can walk before they enter the race? IMO expansion teams should be given financial help to become competitive from the start.

I just don't see anyone watching a side that is incapable of winning.

Leigh could only muster a average of 3.5k of there own fans watch them in super league, Leigh are a long long way of being ready for super league.

This is so true, it must be demoralising for the team and the fans to be beaten every week.

HARLEQUINS RL

Coach: Brian McDermott (since July 2006).

Captain: Rob Purdham (Chad Randall standing in for the first three months).

Previous finishes (most recent last): 4th, 2nd (runners-up), 7th, 8th, 11th, 6th, 8th, 5th, 10th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 9th, 11th.

2009 leading scorers: tries - David Howell 14; goals - Danny Orr 43; points - Danny Orr 102.

Biggest Super League win: 72-8 (v Wakefield, 2005).

Biggest Super League defeat: 74-12 (v Bradford, 1999).

Ground and capacity: Twickenham Stoop, 15,000.

2009 average attendance: 3,436 (down 337).

This is better by Catalans

CATALANS DRAGONS

Coach: Kevin Walters (since December 200icon_cool.gif.

Captain: to be announced.

Previous finishes (most recent last): 12th, 10th, 3rd, 8th.

2009 leading scorers (including play-offs): tries - Olivier Elima and Dimitri Pelo both 17; goals - Thomas Bosc 78; points - Thomas Bosc 174.

Biggest Super League win: 66-6 (v Salford, 2007).

Biggest Super League defeat: 60-12 (v Leeds, 2006).

Ground and capacity: Gilbert Brutus Stadium, 7,000 (temporary reduction during renovation in 2010).

2009 average attendance: 9,104 (up 616).

Record Super League attendance: 11,122 (v Wigan, 2006, at Stade Aime Giral).

You've gotta love this thread...... normally our supporters are writing our own side off at the start of the season. Now we've got a team & a coach who we believe are realistic contenders we're writing the Crusaders off instead. Great.

I think you just need to gie them a chance.I think Nobby will do a good job with the resources he has,at the crusaders.I been down to Wrexham witj work afew times and the ground looks better than a couple of SL teams, IE Salford Wakey to name two.

Why are we the only sport obsessed with attendances and dick measuring?

I saw Middlesborough on t'tele t'other week; the ground was all but empty. Should the FA refuse them a place in the Premier League in future?

No.

They should be made to resign Robbie Mustoe & Jamie Pollock and play them in every game, if they stay in the league, move on. If they go down, resign Vladimir Kinder & Carlos Marinelli and the same each season until they go bust with Branco & Marco Branca earning mega bucks in the vauxhall conference.

Quote ="JWP"No. They should be made to resign Robbie Mustoe & Jamie Pollock and play them in every game, if they stay in the league, move on. If they go down, resign Vladimir Kinder & Carlos Marinelli and the same each season until they go bust with Branco & Marco Branca earning mega bucks in the vauxhall conference.'" Jamie Pollock scored the greatest own goal you will ever see whilst playing for Man City www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAc8JooS3MY

Quote ="JWP"No. They should be made to resign Robbie Mustoe & Jamie Pollock and play them in every game, if they stay in the league, move on. If they go down, resign Vladimir Kinder & Carlos Marinelli and the same each season until they go bust with Branco & Marco Branca earning mega bucks in the vauxhall conference.'" Jamie Pollock scored the greatest own goal you will ever see whilst playing for Man City www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAc8JooS3MY

Financial help from where and from who?

The financial help would have to mean every other Super League team accepted a cut in their Super League funding, which would mean that some players got squeezed out of the salary cap and went to rugby union.

What would the new expansion team do with this "financial help" to become "competitive from the start", would it involve signing Australians by any chance on big money?

So basically the idea is to move some players out to rugby union (who would most likely be young British players going off union's recent target market) and bring in some more big money Australians.

Sounds a great plan I'm sure the gap will be closing ever smaller with the Aussies...

I don't get why 2 years on the trot the RFL have thrown Celtic(Crusaders) up against Leeds a week before everybody else when it was obvious it was always going to be tough for them to have a fully up and running team. In 2009 it was always going to be hard for them to have a side capable of winning many games(bar Wigan) because it's always tough for any promoted side and then for this year they'd lost alot of their players through the cock up's with the Visa's.

I know this is a high profile game for them to start off with against Leeds but why not leave it a week and let them have Saints, Wire or Wigan at Wrexham. They'd have matched the crowd at least with the extra away fans and would have had the extra week to prepare.

A good hiding on Friday will make them look like a joke before they've begun again and could really knock their confidence and crowds.

As you're against teams getting assistance from the authorities to avoid administration - do I therefore take it you were against Warrington Borough Council using tax payers money to buy Wilderspool for £1m to bail the club out?

Given that Crusaders haven't played a game in Wrexham yet perhaps we should actually give them a chance to build up and prove themselves.

On the other hand we could adopt the usual Rugby League approach of being negative about everything, criticise and then wonder why things don't work or the sport doesn't get the publicity it 'deserves'.

Perhaps as RL fans we should hope that Crusaders are a soaring success which will help grow the game.
I too worry that a big blow out score will mean nobody turns up again (similar thing happened in Quins 1st game against Saints.) The key to Crusaders' success is how many of the 7k plus turn up in 6 fixtures time.

Crusaders haven't gone as well as hoped but to deride them as a waste of time is wrong - there are alot of promising Welsh players and hopefully a successful Crusaders will help bring them through and strengthen the game.

Is it Crusaders who are a waste of time or the RFL for not auditing their application properly in the first place.

perhaps the rfl should go into horse racing as they seem to have their blinkers on when it suits

in comparison Crusaders are even more ready aren't they

The RFL obviously favour the Leeds Rhinos and choose to offer them a nice comfortable start so that after round 1 they are guaranteed to be top of the table.

The thing I don't get is last year it was south wales, now in wrexham which is virtually north wales, the supporters they had at brewery field are not going to travel to wrexham every home game are they, why have they pulled out of south wales where they may have attracted some decent players.

because if they stayed in the south they would have folded, why else do you think they decided on such drastic action. Its like picking up the wire and dumping it in scarborough


it makes our game look stupid in the extreme and all for the sake of expansion which really isn't expansion anymore

Yes, Leigh have had over a hundred years and can only get 3.5k of there own fans to watch them in super league, they are nowhere near being able to survive in SL.

Why are you showing up Wire fans by constantly trolling on the Crusaders forum ?

Of course you could be from Widnes ...

Personally Widnes for 2012-14 and Wales out.

Yes - I`m sure a small town in Cheshire will really help push RL along ...

If you re-read Sally's post you'll see that the objection is to RL/SL paying the 'assistance'. If the local authority wants to step in, fine: in a way this happens at Catalans where the local government is one of the sponsors (not unusual at all in French sport ).

Exactly - there's a big difference between that and the sporting body itself giving extra funding to one team, which is unethical in sport. How would the other clubs feel, if there were 13 clubs getting a lower share of the central money, and one club getting an extra share, they then went and signed a couple of superstar Aussies with the extra money and Celtic went onto win the league.....or at least make the playoffs, at the expense of somebody else.

I am all for expansion in France because there is a culture in France of local authorities and private investors putting money into sport, and a culture in all sports in France of them spending that money well with very good junior development. Catalans have got some French players up to SL standard remarkably quickly, they've never been struggling for money. Toulouse arguably are even better placed to get money in and have the best junior system in the French league. I am pretty sure that when the next new franchise comes in, it will be Toulouse, quite possibly at the expense of Celtic.

Wales is not a great market IMO. Even rugby union has struggled there and its supposed to be their main sport - the WRU has been in big debt for a long time, they would have folded in the middle of last decade if David Moffett the ex NRL boss hadn't gone in and restructured the league, forcing their clubs to merge because they could only financially sustain 5 teams. That doesn't bode well for the prospects of rugby league there. There will be a lot of hard working individuals in Welsh RL but without the infrastructure that the French have, Celtic's Super League history is going to be one of struggling, struggling some more, the occasional on field high, and folding.