This morning, whilst preparing my early morning Ceylon and ruminating on yesterdays game, an unpleasant thought struck me.

Are we actually that good?

On Friday I watched one of the worst Wigan teams I can recall stumble to victory and move within 2 points of the top five. Hull, a team who have taken some fearful beatings this year, are firmly ensconced in the top 4. Catalan have swung from good to abymsal but look nailed on for the top 5. None of the supporters of these teams would claim to be having a good season, so is being leaders of the chasing pack really that big an achievement?

So, are we genuine contenders with Saints for the big prizes or are we just slightly better and more consistent than the rest? Have we improved and they have stood still or have we maintained whilst they have slipped backwards? Are we gamely trying to keep pace with Saints or looking over our shoulders?

I repeat, are we actually that good?

Well, we were much worse last year and came within a couple of scores of winning the double. Nothing is nailed on in RL these days.

If we are back to near enough full strength leading up to October 12th and we are focussed there’s no reason we can’t go one better. I’d be asking more questions if we finished top and failed to win a semi like we did in 2011, and like Saints did last year.

Warrington are capable of winning the double! The performance levels are though worryingly inconsistent and I’m beginning to fear that it’ll be another case of ... next year will be your year!

No team in Super League is that good.

The lack of Salary Cap increases over the years in line with inflation increases or sports inflation increases has averaged out the league. Not that it’s averaged it out so every team is equally as good or bad as each other, it’s just dropped the quality across the league and made it quite an average league.

Most of the best English players go to the NRL or Union. All the best NRL players stay in the NRL unless they reach 30+. All the best Union players stay in Union.

There was once a time when most of the best English players would stay here. There was once a time when some stars of Aus/NZ would come here. There was once a time when some stars of Welsh Union would come and play here too.

Super League is a bridge between the quality of the NRL and the Intertrust Super Prem/Cup. There’d be Intertust sides who’d do well in Super League.

While some SL sides have some top players, top of the league Saints are an average side in the Grand Scheme of things. So, no, we’re not that good and neither is anyone else.

We're OK. Good when we want to be, frustrating at times, and very indisciplined throughout.
Negatives
We're too heavily reliant on Clark, Ratchford and Austin, and we lack bite when Hill and Cooper are rotated. We have scrum half that isn't good enough for where we aspire to be, a second rower who is nowhere near the level he was, pre injury, and a couple of "big hitters" that have been [icarried[/i at times.
Positives
We're comfortably second (admittedly, in a poor quality league) and will be slight favourites to reach another CCFinal. We have strike players in several positions, who are potential match winners.

So, whilst I'm not exactly doing backflips, neither am I reaching for the razor blades. Daft losses happen in sport, like being ahead all game, then losing matches at the death. My toys are still in my pram, but we DO need to win something by mid October. Losing finals REALLY does piddle me off

I think you're a relatively comfortable second to this Saints side in the general scheme of things. Our elite players are slightly better than yours overall (I'll concede Austin), our younger players are signifnicantly better than yours (Thompson, Ashworth, Lees, Knowles, Smith are all superb players).

If it were first past the post I don't think you'd stand much of a chance. Not quite Celtic in the Scottish Prem, but you wouldn't win the league either. But it's not and you definitely can beat us in individual games. You should turn us over at your place in a couple of weeks as we don't need to win and have a 4 player per week rotation policy going currently. You also have a superb record against us in big games. Absolutely no reason why you can't beat us in both finals and win the double if you play well.

I'm just hoping Hull can carry on their recent surge in form and become a force. They are capable of beating Warrington and Saints if they are fit and on form and motivated. I'm hoping they come along and cause havoc in both the Challence Cup and Super League semi finals.

The Wakefield game ,where they came back admirably in the 2nd half, should have been a wake up call to our team & coaching staff but we are seeing a lack of being able to put games to bed recently & other teams know that.

Our discipline is a lot worse this year for some reason. Austin is well marshalled and we don't have a decent 2nd HB to create anything when this happens. I think we have played some really average games but because we still come up with the win, it's making us look better than we actually are by being 2nd in the league.

If they do then I hope they do the double, winning both finals without conceding a single point in either game (unless halifax manage a minor miracle on which case I hope grix wins the cup as fax manager).

we have some very good players capable of getting in most teams...we have some average players who do a job and support the good players....and we have some slightly below average players who aren't up to the required standard to be a championship winning team.

We need another quality halfback (Widdop...jobs a good un)...and we need 2 more good prop forwards...in the Carvell/wood mould, and another good centre. Then we might have a shot....IMO

Without the individual flashes of brilliance from Clarke and Austin Warrington are just above par in the SL. That brilliance could take you all the way but without it you’ll go nowhere! Sorry if that sounds harsh and I’m in your corner and hoping you win the lot but at the minute that’s the way an outsider sees it

That's the way I think most of us see it as well. Saints look fitter than the rest of the league and are able to maintain a much better line speed than everyone else. Every other team is inconsistent, we are just less inconsistent than the rest and have a bit more individual spark.

I dont like out defence first approach but then again if it wins us the GF then I won't remember or care how we played through the season.

Saints are there for the taking. Like last year they and their fans are so up their own arris it’s unbelievable! I know cos I’ve stood there and watched them and suffered abuse when I’ve suggested that Daryl Clarke is better than Roby and that Luke Thompson is overrated! Warrington’s problem is not Saints... it’s themselves

Barring Leeds’s treble-winning side in 2015, the last decade of grand finals has shown that the side not finishing top (and often looking mediocre and downright rubbish at times) grinds out a GF victory. Take Wigan in 2016 for example, or Leeds in 2017. Plenty of rubbish performances throughout the season where fans were calling for the coach’s head. Then they somehow turn it on for the final. Of course, I’m not suggesting Warrington will do that, but looking second best all season has worked for most champion teams in recent history.

I do however agree that Saints are the most consistently good team, just as they were last season.

I think we're very poorly led on the field. It can lead to often to losing our heads and poor discipline.

Instead of grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck, Hill will more likely be seen moaning to the ref. After all the final losses, we should have made a clear change, not a halfway house with a co-captain.

I don't buy this 'standard dropped across the board' stuff.

There's always been 2 or 3 teams fighting out. The difference is its not Wigan or leeds this time...it's Wire and Saints.
Just because Wigan are shat...it doesn't hold up that suddenly all the league is shat...when it's just the status quo.

The problem this year with SL is it’s missing the class that is Widnes!
Seriously though RD you are absolutely spot on!

That’s the great enigma about the Wires, it doesn’t matter whether we actually are the best team in the league, or whether we just think we are, the outcome is always the same, losers.

It’s in our DNA

Let's just see how saints handle the pressure seeing as everyone has carved their name on the trophy this year already. They might be the best side this season but me, they are hardly the 1982 Australian touring side people make them out to be!!

Without Clark and Ratchford the opposition can concentrate on Austin. Then factor in our indiscipline which has been an increasing worry and most teams have a sniff against us. If we could sort out the penalties we would be a much better team.

PS I am also going to stop listening to matches on Wire FM, every time I do we lose.

As it stands we have an opportunity to win the Challenge Cup and the Grand Final of Superleague.

It's only a case of being good enough on the day of the Cup semi and then final, and each play off match to the GF (assuming we get in the top 5). We don't even need to good and could be bang average, or even crap for all I care, as long as were better than our opponents on the scoreboard after 80 minutes, in the games that matter.

I think we are a good second, but as the weekend match showed we have an achilles heel and an occasional attitude problem.
The match against Catalan showed that we do have a reasonable defence and a coach that can get tactics right on big matches, but then the players seem to switch off on so called 'easier matches ( including last year's c.c. final where we were shocking).
Saints are head and shoulders above everyone else. The gap is huge. End of.
Having said that there are a few clubs who can challenge them - we're one of them, but it depends which Wire turn up.
Hull are another, but they yoyo from brilliant to absolute cr@p.

If teams keep Austin and Clark quiet and limit our go forward then we struggle.
I think Saints have far many strings to their bow.

I think our best...is better than Saints again this year as it was last...regardless if how many points up the league they are, or runaway scores they have.

Sorry RD but this is nonsense. We embarrassed ourselves against Saints earlier this year and I worry about next Friday. We really blow hot and cold far too much, I don’t care if we’re second, we don’t seem to know how to build consistency and momentum, I think Fez in the post above yours has summed us up. Shut down Austin and Clark and we fall to bits. In that respect we are easy to play against. Perhaps the possible cup final against our sister-loving rivals will bring the fight out of us but I really don’t see anyone matching them this year, when it counts. I worry they’ve learned from previous failures, whereas we have been to the well many times now (12, 13, 16, 1icon_cool.gif and still don’t know how to win the one that counts. I suppose time will tell but I don’t buy into this nonsense that we will miraculously turn it on when it counts. We wait and see.