just been reading statement from Brian Noble that Crusaders are not ready for opening match against leeds, why is the rfl wasting time and money when we have got Widnes with a really good stadium dying to get back up, not only that they would bring crowds to home games at Warrington, the same goes for Harlequins, the biggest crowd they get down there is about 3000 and a percentage of that is away fans. I didn't realise till I went down there they only open one stand.
The only success of trying to expand the game is Catalan, the french love it, they have really good gates and you also see them over here, there were loads of them at Edinburgh last year.

Widnes is a small village between Warrington and St Helens and their inclusion in Super League would bring nothing to the game as a whole. As for bringing big attendances to Warrington's home game the last season they were in Super league Warrington got a bigger gate for the match agiants Harlequins.

When did you go to Harlequins and see only one stand open? I suspect you only see what you want to see? Are you saying there is no room for clubs who don't open all their stands for all games (think about it before you answer that).

When did you go to Harlequins and see only one stand open? I suspect you only see what you want to see? Are you saying there is no room for clubs who don't open all their stands for all games (think about it before you answer that).

When we got hammered last year and Matt King did the finger gesture, only one stand and I was talking to local fan and he said that was the norm.

Hang on a minute, correct me if I'm wrong did they not shut the west stand when we played them?

The local fan is wrong.

Widnes and Leigh over the crusaders and harlequinns any day for me. crusaders particularly are a complete waste of space and should be bannished to the lower leagues as soon its legally possible. the people who defend clubs like crusaders fail to realise that the likes of leigh and widnes could be ten times better clubs than the crusaders given the same amount of SL investment and would therefore make them better competitors in sl. definitely the rfl should be withdrawing sl licenses for any club that doesn't have its own permanent purpose built stadium with all the modcons and also those who can only attract a few hundred home supporters. the rfl and sl have been propping up the harlequinns for years now...how many times have they been saved from administration by intervention from the authorities?

Live in london and been to the Quins a few times last year, they do only open one stand (the east) sometimes they open 2 if the crowds are worth it. SO he is telling the truth i've seen it several times.

Widnes yes, Leigh no.

Super League has very few 'Super' teams.

Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Catalans, Warrington are firm yesses.
Bradford, Saints, Cas, Hull KR would be if they had better facilities
Huddersfield would be if they had a better average attendance
Salford, Wakefield, Harlequins and Crusaders (Unless they do well this year) all seem like inevitable failures. Wakefield and Salford in particular shouldn't be in SL.

Widnes would be perenial also rans and are not really worth bringing in. 7k is probably the best they can average and geographically they add nothing. Leigh might scrape 5k as an average and seem awfully run as a club, despite the nice facilities.

For me they need to look to France for any further franchise applications, those looking to get in over here aren't strong enough.

Leigh didn't average that high in 2005 when they were in Super League at Hilton Park.

I like how the OP has completely ignored the fact that Crusaders have already sold over 6,500 tickets for their opening game at Wrexham, already beating their highest attendance for last year v Sts of 6,300(ish). Give them time and I guarantee they will be a successful expansion team in the end.

I take it you will underwrite the losses if they go out of business then?



The sales for the first game are great. BUT if they lose by 70 (Brian Noble has said today they are not ready for SL and are not a SL team and Keith Senior says they shouldn't be in SL) what does that do to their ability to draw a crowd in future? If they were good enough to challenge or beat Leeds great, but the fear is that they won't be competitive at all this season, which would set them on a negative course towards ruin.

Catalans are the only decent franchise, helped massively by their competitiveness from the go and their Cup Final appearance in their 2nd season. Can anyone see Crusaders reaching the Cup Final this season?

I wouldn't say Catalan were competitive from the word go. Yes they won their first game v Wigan, but still finished bottom of the pile with only seven/eight wins IIRC.

Stranger things have happened then Celtic getting to Wembley, but like most things in RL like new clubs and the Magic Weekend, the fans expect them to run before they can walk and develop a backing.

I just think the case should be that they can walk before they enter the race? IMO expansion teams should be given financial help to become competitive from the start.

I just don't see anyone watching a side that is incapable of winning.

Leigh could only muster a average of 3.5k of there own fans watch them in super league, Leigh are a long long way of being ready for super league.

This is so true, it must be demoralising for the team and the fans to be beaten every week.

HARLEQUINS RL

Coach: Brian McDermott (since July 2006).

Captain: Rob Purdham (Chad Randall standing in for the first three months).

Previous finishes (most recent last): 4th, 2nd (runners-up), 7th, 8th, 11th, 6th, 8th, 5th, 10th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 9th, 11th.

2009 leading scorers: tries - David Howell 14; goals - Danny Orr 43; points - Danny Orr 102.

Biggest Super League win: 72-8 (v Wakefield, 2005).

Biggest Super League defeat: 74-12 (v Bradford, 1999).

Ground and capacity: Twickenham Stoop, 15,000.

2009 average attendance: 3,436 (down 337).

This is better by Catalans

CATALANS DRAGONS

Coach: Kevin Walters (since December 200icon_cool.gif.

Captain: to be announced.

Previous finishes (most recent last): 12th, 10th, 3rd, 8th.

2009 leading scorers (including play-offs): tries - Olivier Elima and Dimitri Pelo both 17; goals - Thomas Bosc 78; points - Thomas Bosc 174.

Biggest Super League win: 66-6 (v Salford, 2007).

Biggest Super League defeat: 60-12 (v Leeds, 2006).

Ground and capacity: Gilbert Brutus Stadium, 7,000 (temporary reduction during renovation in 2010).

2009 average attendance: 9,104 (up 616).

Record Super League attendance: 11,122 (v Wigan, 2006, at Stade Aime Giral).

You've gotta love this thread...... normally our supporters are writing our own side off at the start of the season. Now we've got a team & a coach who we believe are realistic contenders we're writing the Crusaders off instead. Great.

I think you just need to gie them a chance.I think Nobby will do a good job with the resources he has,at the crusaders.I been down to Wrexham witj work afew times and the ground looks better than a couple of SL teams, IE Salford Wakey to name two.

Why are we the only sport obsessed with attendances and dick measuring?

I saw Middlesborough on t'tele t'other week; the ground was all but empty. Should the FA refuse them a place in the Premier League in future?

No.

They should be made to resign Robbie Mustoe & Jamie Pollock and play them in every game, if they stay in the league, move on. If they go down, resign Vladimir Kinder & Carlos Marinelli and the same each season until they go bust with Branco & Marco Branca earning mega bucks in the vauxhall conference.

Quote ="JWP"No. They should be made to resign Robbie Mustoe & Jamie Pollock and play them in every game, if they stay in the league, move on. If they go down, resign Vladimir Kinder & Carlos Marinelli and the same each season until they go bust with Branco & Marco Branca earning mega bucks in the vauxhall conference.'" Jamie Pollock scored the greatest own goal you will ever see whilst playing for Man City www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAc8JooS3MY

Quote ="JWP"No. They should be made to resign Robbie Mustoe & Jamie Pollock and play them in every game, if they stay in the league, move on. If they go down, resign Vladimir Kinder & Carlos Marinelli and the same each season until they go bust with Branco & Marco Branca earning mega bucks in the vauxhall conference.'" Jamie Pollock scored the greatest own goal you will ever see whilst playing for Man City www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAc8JooS3MY

Financial help from where and from who?

The financial help would have to mean every other Super League team accepted a cut in their Super League funding, which would mean that some players got squeezed out of the salary cap and went to rugby union.

What would the new expansion team do with this "financial help" to become "competitive from the start", would it involve signing Australians by any chance on big money?

So basically the idea is to move some players out to rugby union (who would most likely be young British players going off union's recent target market) and bring in some more big money Australians.

Sounds a great plan I'm sure the gap will be closing ever smaller with the Aussies...

I don't get why 2 years on the trot the RFL have thrown Celtic(Crusaders) up against Leeds a week before everybody else when it was obvious it was always going to be tough for them to have a fully up and running team. In 2009 it was always going to be hard for them to have a side capable of winning many games(bar Wigan) because it's always tough for any promoted side and then for this year they'd lost alot of their players through the cock up's with the Visa's.

I know this is a high profile game for them to start off with against Leeds but why not leave it a week and let them have Saints, Wire or Wigan at Wrexham. They'd have matched the crowd at least with the extra away fans and would have had the extra week to prepare.

A good hiding on Friday will make them look like a joke before they've begun again and could really knock their confidence and crowds.

As you're against teams getting assistance from the authorities to avoid administration - do I therefore take it you were against Warrington Borough Council using tax payers money to buy Wilderspool for £1m to bail the club out?

Given that Crusaders haven't played a game in Wrexham yet perhaps we should actually give them a chance to build up and prove themselves.

On the other hand we could adopt the usual Rugby League approach of being negative about everything, criticise and then wonder why things don't work or the sport doesn't get the publicity it 'deserves'.

Perhaps as RL fans we should hope that Crusaders are a soaring success which will help grow the game.
I too worry that a big blow out score will mean nobody turns up again (similar thing happened in Quins 1st game against Saints.) The key to Crusaders' success is how many of the 7k plus turn up in 6 fixtures time.

Crusaders haven't gone as well as hoped but to deride them as a waste of time is wrong - there are alot of promising Welsh players and hopefully a successful Crusaders will help bring them through and strengthen the game.

Is it Crusaders who are a waste of time or the RFL for not auditing their application properly in the first place.

perhaps the rfl should go into horse racing as they seem to have their blinkers on when it suits