i expected at least 3 new ones... over the last few seasons we have had

Departures from the first team

Morley
Carvell
Cooper
Asotasi (rubbish)
England
Harrison (injury)
Wood

and we have brought in (not including those that have left)

Dodds
Simms

have i missed anyone?

what going on?

we have Hill, Dodds, Simms.. and erm..... dont we need at least 5 props?

i must have missed a few, as those numbers just look silly.

I'm genuinely baffled as well seeing Harrison missing most of the season now as well we're looking short upfront unless loan signings are on the cards? Looks like smith has nothing up his sleeve and really has faith in our kids next season. I don't get why we've been so slack in recruitment, keeping hearing there's nobody left that's why but there were loads of quality props up for grabs when we could have signed one. Looks like we're running with Hill, Sims, Dodds and Westwood next year then. George King was going well for us and added some punch upfront so would be good to see him improve a bit more in the new year.

are we really running with westwood as a prop? all i have seen is internet conjecture.

is he cut out for prop? he is a backrower that is struggling to make an impact as he gets older.... is that what we want?

im bemused at the clubs apparent lack of concern over this position.... im even more concerned that its going to turn Hill into the walking dead.... last season carvell was joking with hill on twitter that we have no props to help him out.... its not very funny now though.

Hill. Sims. Dodds. King. Philbin. Evans.

There's six. Sure, it perhaps the weakest on paper, but really how often does Chris Hill miss a game? Sims has only missed through suspension. The rest on that list are better than Asotasi ever was. It's young definitely, but the potential is showing. What the hell, we might as well pull a Wigan and have some faith.

I do think Benny will be showing up in the front row more this year. We already have Currie, Hughes, Westerman, Wilde and even Ratchford to fill in at SR/LF.

My worry is that we're compiling a team of jack of all trades but masters of non. Hughes can play second row and centre, but he ain't going to set the world alight in either position. Solid, yes. Stand out? No.

Equals another barren season.

Hill and Sims to start, Westerman at loose. Westwood and Dodds off the bench.

King, B Evans and Laithwaite as back up 'middle unit' players.

Leaves us with Hughes, Currie, Wilde and Philbin for second row options.

Ratchford and Wheeler the 'utility' options if things get desperate.

Doesn't look too bad to me. Plus the calls for Atkins to move into the back row could happen if we are really short.

Westwood is not a prop though, and his performances at 2nd row have been on the wane for 2 years.

Perhaps there is promise in Philbin at prop. Rest are 2nd row.

Relying on Wheeler as a utility option may not be the safest bet either.

No I think we are at least 2 props short for adequate cover and have no 'wrecking ball' prop option either.

What we can say for sure it's one of the weakest packs in recent memory and is unlikely to boss many of our rivals' pack.

I've just watched King vs. Saints last match. He played right in the middle and more than held his own ... with decent hands too. Don't underestimate this lad. He's an improvement on England, Asotasi and an old Paul Wood.

I have to agree with all points here.

I just cant fathom why, for the 2nd year on the bounce, we are losing more props than were recruiting... and last year we were desperately short up front.

Ive been waiting for at least one more prop signing.. Now Smith says there wont be any, yet there is room in the cap, should an outstanding player become available.

Seems to be a regular thing on here when talking about props, Ben Evans not getting mentioned. He was more than holding his own before his injury. If it hadn't been for the injury I think he would've been pushing a place in the team with Asotasi not pulling his weight. Providing he's not lost anything as a result of it it's a huge year for him IMO.

We do seem to have short memories. He was the darling on this forum. I addition some seem to be forgetting when Morley and Carvell actually left us ... and we've still not replaced Charlie Winslade and Bill Payne.

I dont think he was ever the darling.. he was having a decent start to the season when he got the bad injury.

When one of these youngsters has a good stint and cements themselves in the 17 then fair enough... until then they are unproven first team squad players who may or may not make it.

Maybe our lack of props means we will be using a more open game plan next season, using speed ,agility & superb handling skills to blow all opposition away. If we can make that work there won't be as much need for five up the middle from big props then a kick.

Props Win Pots.

I'll go against the grain of some and say I think Westwood will make a good prop IMO.

We are still a very good prop short of being a top four club for me though.

Didn't BW play as prop a couple of seasons ago?

Westwood is definitely going to be used as a prop next season.

Smith will probably start with Hill,Clark and Sims with Currie, Hughes and Westerman.

Dodds,King,Westwood and Dwyer will leave us with Philbin and Evans both able to play prop or back row, Wilde plus Laithwaite and Harrison to return.

The interchange should cope with the bench as it reads but a few injuries and we will struggle.

Plan A will have Westwood playing through the middle, that said, we wanted to do that last year but for indifferent form for Laithwaite we had to move him back out to back row. Same with Laithwaite, I don't think he has the pace to play out wide, but it a solid defender and a big guy, good back up for the middle unit.

Ideal world id like another prop, but unless you can get one better than what we have, don't bother. The young lads deserve a shot after coming in and doing well last year.

If Sims beefs up 1/2 stone in close season, I think with Westwood we'll cover that area. Yet our depth looks shallow...with the loss of just Harrison we are already asking questions!!??

Shouldn't even be thinking this but an injury to Hill & i think it would be " Goodnight Vienna". He has carried the team for the last 2 years.

My concern isn't whether Benny could step up at prop, because I think he can, but whether that position of high collision would frustrate him into being costly with the officials.

Christ I always forget about Ben Evans yeah he's a good solid prop who could come in handy. I think looking at the Squad we're not in a great position prop wise but if Dodds works out I think we're actually in a better position then this year. Dodds last year was 10 times better then Asotasi ever was for us so let's hope he continues his form. King is better then England and should only get better with more gameplay, Ben Evans missed most of the season so we have him to help offset the loss of Harrison. Pack some more size on to Westwood in the off season and like already mentioned cut his gameplay minutes down and we've got ourselves a solid prop who likes the biff. I would like another prop but we could go Quite well with Sandow playing off the cuff and Gidley guiding us around. And hopefully Clark will find his form again like he did at the end of the season.

I agree that getting Evans back as well as swapping Dodds for Asotasi should be a bonus as far as the pack is concerned, but I'm not convinced that King is a better bet than England yet.

Sure, I would have liked England to have kicked on a bit more than he did, he should be reaching his prime right now and I wonder whether it was the spitting incident that finally put paid to his time at Wire or some other factor, his performance or likes of Evans and King putting him down the pecking order?

Given the losses we have endured in the pack recently, culminating with Harrison's withdrawal next season and us not appearing to be getting another prop in then I might just have kept England in a last chance saloon.