All this talk of McIllorum as a dirty player (which I think he is personally) got me thinking about what defines a dirty player.

And would the likes of Terry Newton, Barrie Mac and Mike Nicholas be deemed as dirty players if you take off the rose tinted spectacles.

And what about Toa?
TKL must have hit more heads with his swinging arm than the bloke who was in charge of the guillotine during the French revolution. Having said that I maintain it was more a case of tackling technique and being caught with a step (and during his 2nd spell with us he was a lot better).

Ryan Bailey is one who gets me - a large bloke who makes cheap shots at small blokes.

There are plenty more, and whilst I realise that our game isn't played by choirboys it success shouldn't be based on thuggery. (At least in my book).

I would say a dirty player is one that will go onto that field with more enthusiasm to hurt people than to actually play the game itself, or at least look like that. People like Bailey are prime examples. But then you have 'MickyMac' who can play, but chooses to be a tosspot in defence for the hell of it, this type probably falls into a different bracket.

I'd also say there's a difference between dirty and cheeky, dirty players will have the intention to hurt, whereas cheeky players will set out to wind up the opposition so much they lash out, Jon Clarke is particularly good at this.

Dirty - Bailey.

Cheap shots on the sly - McIlorum, Hock, Wilkin etc.

Cheeky - Clarke, Briers etc.
And as much as I hate to say it, Webb was more of a wind up merchant than anything else.

Westwood... anyone that goes into the first tackle of a grand final swinging a punch in someones face isnt right in the head.

Paul Bishop definitely falls into the 'cheeky' bracket!

Suuuuuuuuuuupppper, super Ben.

Ben was merely saying 'hello' in the only way he knows how.

Ryan bailey is just a poophouse, he never squares up to a big man and is the first to throw the sly dig on the smaller players.

An old friend of mine reckoned that the dirtiest/ hardest man ever to play RL was Charlie Pawdsey of Leigh in the 1950s. Apparently he used to train with a double decker bus strapped to his back and burst pigs under his arm!!!

Paul Reilly of Hudds was a niggler and cheap shot merchant.

Charlie Pawsey was universally acknowledged as a hard man in an era which was far more vicious than today when the game is far more sanitised.
He was captain of GB playing NSW and the game was so brutal that play was abandoned when the ref walked off the pitch and never refereed another game. This is what happens when dirty play is not dealt with and players have to take the law in to their own hands.
I only saw him a few times and he did not do anything memorable but, as a kid, I remember that people spoke his name in awe.

Joe Price. He makes todays game look like tick and pass.

By any yardstick Joe Price was indeed a dirty player. His motto of 'get your retaliation in first' was certainly adhered to.

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The only player that I have ever heard being booed by his own team`s fans (Wire fans) for being too dirty.

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I was talking about hard players to Andy Gregory the other day , he told me that his front row at Wire was Les Davidson , Kevin Tamati , and Steve Roach , he said a finger was never laid on him during his times with these guys , personally the Hardest player I have ever seen is Tony Cottrell from Leigh .Never a dirty player though .

Surely all of the "big" playing forwards have 'dirty' tendancies? Read Moz's book. Some games he just set out to bounce the opposition, but no-one has cited him as dirty! It is just a case of stamping your authority on a game and letting your opponent know who's boss.

The thread should really be, "who isn't a dirty player?"

You'll mean Les Boyd. I'm also not too sure if Tamati and Roach played together at Wire. Davidson was a second row.

If you want a dirty player Len Casey who played at KR. Remember him playing late in the season at Wilderspool and breaking Ken Kellys jaw in an off the ball late challenge. Think Ken was due to go on tour and couldn't because of the incident. Casey had a reputation for this.

I may be wrong but I think Casey was playing for Bradford when he did Ken Kelly although he had two spells at Hull KR and is readily associated with them. He was a leading exponent of the stiff or swinging arm usually on a half back calculated to break the jaw when the ball was at the other end of the pitch and the blow was least expected. One of those players who deliberately went out to disable people and one of the most cowardly and dirty players I ever saw.

Mick Sullivan was one notorious for the biff and, although not that big, would fight anybody. Rumour has it that when he broke his arm, he saved the plaster when it was removed in order to strap it back on under his jersey in needle matches to make his stiff arm tackles more effective. I don't think there is a psychiatric term to describe his personality. He seemed to me a complete nutter who loved to take the biff as much as he dished it out. Although a supremely talented player who didn't need to mix it, he seemed to enjoy it too much to leave it out.

Ken Kellys' jaw was also broken by Joe Price. I think it was in the semi final of the John Player Trophy against St. Helens. We went on to win the game

Looked into this Wireone and you are right it was Bradford. The follow up was that when Bradford came the next season we got payback. Allegedly Mike Nicholas threw a punch in a scrum and it all exploded. Within the next, if I remember correctly 15 minutes the whole Bradford front row had been sent off, Jimmy Thompson, a young Brian Noble and Van Bellen. Think one of our guys too probably Nicko. Not even sure Casey was playing probably was at KR by then.

Nicky Kiss was in the same mould as Mikey mac. Good but dirty player not really a biff player but sneaky and dirty.