1 Ratchford - OK
2 Joel - OK
3 Bridge - Never good enough
4 Atkins - Bath?
5 Riley - adequate
6 Lee - 1 more year?
7 Myler - OK
8 Morley - Gone
9 Higham/Monas OK but for how long?
10 Carvell - Gone
11 Trent - OK
12 Ben - OK
13 Harrison - OK
14 Hodgey - Gone
15 Cooper - Gone
16 Higham/Monas see above
17 Hill - OK
18 Wood - 1 more year
etc

Cheque Book out - Kirmond etc etc - Views Gentlemen.

Lymm Restauranteurs v upset - very quiet in the village when boom time expected.

Que?

Ratchford
Joel
Bridge
Atkins
Riley
Briers
Myler
Hill
Higham
Wood
Waterhouse
Westwood
Grix

Harrison
Asotasi
Monaghan
Currie

Starting 17 we're fine, it's beyond that that we now become weaker. Injuries to backs and we have Evans, O'Brien, and Penny to come in. Injuries to front row we have Riley, Bridge, Laithwaite and I can't think of more, unless we sign that England guy from the lower league. BJB is apparently coming in, if so that helps a little but we're definitely light on depth next year.

Personally i'd like 2 new centres and move atkins onto the wing

Riley isn't good enough, that's a simple fact

Can't we wallow in self-pity for a bit longer before we start to pull the 2014 squad to pieces?

Come off it. He saved 3 tries tonight in defence when Atkins had left him in a two on one situation. He scores more than enough tries during a season. His defence is suspect yes, but he's been with us 8 years, he must be doing something right.

+1

Yes its the end of Tony Smith's "first team" that he won those trophies from 2009 to 2012 with, clubs have to reassemble teams like Ferguson did at United, he probably had three distinct teams in different eras.

We might drop down in standard in the next year or two (the big drop will be when Briers leaves) but we knew this before anyway. Obviously the night after a Grand Final loss we will look through it with a more negative lens whereas had we won tonight the posts would have been listing the names of various Academy players saying this would be the spine of our team for the next five years, the future's bright the future's Wire.

I reckon we will be around 4th / 5th next year but still a threat in the playoffs and Grand Final. That was my prediction last year for Wigan with the end of an era with Finch, Leuluai, Carmont and Lima all leaving and unfortunately it turned out to be truer than I hoped.

Briers had your pants down when you gave him a new contract.

Totally anonymous when Wigan started to wake up.

And came up with the key plays when we were on top. I didn't see Blake Green much when Wigan were defending; maybe they should get rid of him.

Knew it wouldn't be long before Riley gets burnt on here.

I've already been the first to say it.
Smith dropped a bigger bollox than Woodie last season.
Not having Hodgson or another back at least, caught us out.
Ratchford ought to have been on the bench.

Give it a rest, banging that drum - having four forwards on the bench is for the most part standard practice for every coach and team, especially at the top level. It's the forwards that are rotated, not backs. If a back should be injured, a versatile pack player such as loose or second row slides into the backs as cover and one reshuffles. Are we REALLY having to have this conversation? Have you never seen a Tony Smith line up before, or one of any other number of Super League teams for that matter??

That was dumb luck last night, not bad tactics. It's a gamble to not have a back on the bench, one that pays off 99% of the time. Here ends the lesson. Try not to bring this up again, there's a good chap. Stick to posting ridiculous rumours that you've conjured out of your hiney.

you say dumb luck! No such thing as luck, dumb yes. You make your own scenario of what we deem as luck.

contradiction in the highest.

Dumb can be a action or decision that effects an outcome.

Bad tactic is then in order.

be a good chap and stick to not having a clue what your on about.

Pedant-tastic on the dumb luck calling, good catch

Let's call it bad luck. While one makes one's own luck, I haven't seen you calling Smith's tactics for the sub bench until after last night's match. Your rationale suggests we should always have a back on the bench. Please enlighten me to the many occasions where we've used that tactic as a team in our recent, successful years. Intrigued to hear. You've an answer for everything, sadly rarely the correct one. [iHindsight [/iis a quite remarkable thing...

Btw, any more rumours occur to you of late? Please share if so. Always a treat hearing who you'd like us to sign...

What era??

If Wigan had suffered the same luck - say Tomkins and Charnley injured, how would they have coped? I don't see anything in Wigan's bench or starting 13 that suggests they'd have managed any better; the disruption would have been as great, the result may well have been different, Eddie, Phil & Stevo would have been lamenting their bad luck and we may well have been champions.

What is certain is that if we'd have gone with 3 forwards on the bench and Westwood & Wood (for example) had got injured TS would have been murdered.

We are in transition. Morley, Hodgeson and Carvell will leave this year, Monas and Briers next. That is a huge amount of talent, but sadly they are not the players that we remember in their pomp. Next year is a concern for me because I don't see Briers lasting more than 1/3 to 1/2 of a match - he doesn't seem to have the stamina. And whilst Monas showed flashes of his old self at the business end of the season, I suspect his knees will force him into a repeat performance of 2013 - solid, but without the attacking venom of yesteryear.

So the ball is in TS's court, and we are back to a discussion we had months ago, can he re-shape a new cup hunting Wire team ? and what are our prospects for 2014 ?

What we don't know is how much cash the club is able / willing to spend on new players. On paper, the three signings we know about look promising rather than key signings. In terms of salary cap, then including NI, Morley Hodgeson and Carvell must have been pushing £450k. That must mean there is plenty of room to bring in at least one more quality player, perhaps two, providing the transfer money is available. From our own youngsters, we can expect a bigger contribution from Rhys Evans and Ben Currie next year. Outside of that I suspect it will be a case of providing more game time and experience for the better prospects (Laithwaite, Riley, Dwyer and GOB) - essentially building for 2015.

If you add all that up, my feelings are similar to those of Sally on another thread. I think Wire could be around 4th next year, and challenging for the silverware rather than being well positioned to win it.

hindsight doesn't exsist either.

Who I would like us to sign is of no importance and has no influence on the powers that be.

I don't like OPs post but I do think it is the end an era. I think our best shout at winning it was 2011 and two runs from Burrow in the second half got Leeds back in the game, I don't think it had anything to do with Leeds' character as a champion side or owt, I just think Burrows' size and pace did for us and we had no answer to him.

We have made the final in the last two years but I don't think we've been as good a side since we lost Matt King and our older players have got that bit older and M Monaghan's injuries taken their toll on him.

I don't think we'll be going back to Old Trafford for a good while.

Fuck off!

It's a big transition period for Warrington their threat will certainly be weakened, St Helens are going through the same thing now and struggling, it'll be interesting to see how Smith handles it.

I don't see wire being any weaker!?

Going off the team we have left..yes
that left about a fifth of the cap left to spend.

You can get a lot of sweeties for that amount of money!

Therein lies the problem. Sign someone off the shelf rather than promote from within.

fair comment