After the last few matches maybe people will realise exactly what he's there for. Scoring tries! Great finish once again.

I've said a few times he's not a blistering pace winger but within the 20metre line who else would you want, great in the air and good strength and positional awareness, fantastic finisher, in terms of speedy wingers he's low down but we don't need that.

People do seem to just compare him to the speedsters, similar to how some of our fans compare Myler to Briers

I don't compare Monaghan to speedsters, but are people wrong when they say he isn't quick enough? Are people wrong to want pace from the wing position? Joel is a top player, but the people who doubt him or criticise some of his play are pretty accurate in their criticism. Likewise, asking Richie Myler to pass better, kick better and show a little more leadership isn't really asking too much of a halfback. The best halfbacks in the world do everything well, we want Richie to be one of the best halfbacks in the world, saying "he's not that type of player" or "it's not his style" is basically admitting we'll have a decent but limited player for the majority of his career.

If Joel Monaghan had true pace he wouldn't even be in SL such is the quality of the rest of his game, people who don't appreciate that don't appreciate all aspects of RL.

He's quick enough, he's not slow but if we put every teams two first team wingers in a race he'd be in the lower half, his game is so good that it allows me to over look his pace.

John Bevan wasn't that quick, but I didn't hear anyone saying anything about that at all, and he is classed as a Warrington great. Not all wingers have blistering pace, what really matters is their ability to finish. As for Joel not being in the NRL, we all know exactly why he came here. It's been very well documented.
Have you ever considered that Richie Myler may be playing to orders from the coach? Two main playmakers in the side would simply get in the way of each other. When Briers was Myler's age there were several attempts to replace him (I can think of at least 4 men who were brought in under DVDV and Anderson). Myler and Briers are a completely different style of player and Briers also has almost 13 years more experience.
As for Joel, if he carries on scoring tries like in his last few games I will be very happy with him.

At the end of the day people will like different styles of wingers and players, Henri Fa'afili and Ade Gardner scored plenty of tries but both were/are fairly ordinary RL wingers who were fortunate to play outside great centres.

I'm not a fan of Joel Monaghan, thats nothing personal, its just his fairly laboured style that doesn't grab me, he also doesn't beat the first man anywhere near enough when returning the ball, his line breaks are collectors items. He's no Chris Hicks thats for sure, Hicks could do all of what Joel Monaghan does now plus a lot more.

I'm not one to quote facts that much, as their is obviously much more to our game (inc defence) but Joel's strike rate speaks for itself.

Even at the start of this year, when not at his best, I noticed him doing the hard yards in our 20. He's a handfull to bring down.

The reason for the slip in our high standards for the first part of this season lies at a few other players doors for me, rather than Joel's.

Anyway, I won't harp on about that, in reference to the thread - Teesside, I totally agree, he's a clinical finisher in tight quarters. it's a skill i've seen neglected by a few wingers in recent years, diving at arms length into the corner. Joel is a master at this.

Absolutely this although admittedly better in attitude the last few games

Thanks for agreeing with me with regards to Joel. As I said, the rest of his game is literally 'world class', his lack of true pace is what stopped him being up there with the likes of Inglis and Gasnier. We all know why he's here, but if Monaghan was a superstar, it would have been overlooked in Aus IMO.

Myler may be playing to orders from the coach, but that doesn't explain a lack of development in his play. I can't imagine for one minute that Tony would turnaround and say "Richie, don't develop your kicking game fella, I don't want you to ask more questions of a defence". Can you imagine that? If Smith is the great coach we all think he is, he'll push for every ounce of potential from his players, he'll force them out of their comfort zone to make them more complete. I can't believe for one minute that Tony Smith is instructing Richie Myler not to develop his game, but if you do, then that's great for you.

I think it's odd that you are criticising a player who is not even playing at the moment. Myler doesn't kick that often because Briers does. Why does Briers kick so often? Probably because the coach tells him to. have a look at Myler's stats for the past couple of seasons re tries and assists.

Whether he's playing or not is irrelevant; I'm rising to the point that some people seem to deflect fair criticism of players and find an excuse for almost everything. Take the point above as a good example. Myler's tries and assist stats look good, but stats don't tell the whole story. For me, Myler doesn't step up to the plate enough. He's a great support player, he has a decent passing game and he has excellent footwork and speed. Thing is, he had that when he came here, he came here as a halfback oozing with potential; can you truly say he's developed his game near his potential yet? Just because Briers kicks, doesn't mean Richie can't add that to his game. As I said, the best halfbacks do everything well (Briers organises, kicks long and short, passes well and consistently slices the opposition apart), it's not that I'm comparing him to Briers, it's that Briers is a great example of what Richie could become with development in other areas. If people want Richie to stay the same player he is now for the rest of his career, then great, but I'd sooner we got rid and brought in an Aussie with a fully developed game instead. Your halfbacks are you best players, you've got to expect more from them.

He's 21. As I've already said, when Briers was the same age there was a move to replace him with any number of players, including 2 over the hill Aussies, a 'never was' from Papua New Guinea, and a supposedly top class number 6 from Salford.
None of them stepped up to the mark. Myler was given a new contract last year, so we won't be getting rid of him in a hurry. there's a lot of time for him to develop, just like briers, although why some people insist on comparing the two of them is beyond me, they are completely different players.

To be fair that wasn't due to lack of ability, more DVDV really didn't like him.

Are there any wingers in SL who have exceptional pace? I can't think of one.
Wingers today are 6 feet and 14.5 stone plus threequarters.

Is it sunny in Warrington at the moment? Roddy B's obviously had a few lagers out in the sun, don't blame him.

Criticising a winger for not being rapid is a fairly futile exercise, because they're not likely to become much faster any time soon. What we get from Monaghan is solid defence, no nonsense hard work from the back and a great ability to finish tries from kicks or in hands within the opposition twenty.

Trust me, be careful what you wish for. I'd much rather have someone a little bit steady like Joel than someone who's going to cost you a dozen tries a season by tripping over the ball or being unable to field a kick correctly.

I said Joel's a class player, I'm not criticising him. There seemed to be a hint of criticism from Yed's post towards fans who 'compare Joel to speedsters'. I don't compare him to speedsters, but I don't think it's an unfair criticism of Joel to say he isn't quick. Some people prefer pace out wide to punish a poor sliding defence, but I'm really happy with Joel and think he's class. Basically, I was playing devil's advocate to try and stick up for some people who dare to have a different opinion. Joel's the best winger in SL for me and I'd love us to keep him, doesn't mean he can't be compared to a quick winger though.

Jodie Broughton certainly has exceptional pace, Tom Briscoe is someone i'd describe as very quick as well as Josh Charnley, the same can be said for Ben Jones Bishop. Ryan Hall is a similar build to Joel Monaghan, he doesn't have a problem with long range tries as well as breaking the line on a regular basis.

Broughton, definitely very quick the kind of player I was thinking of. Fundamental flaw though, he isn't very good. Briscoe, Charnley and Hall are not particularly quick, certainly not as quick as Broughton, but are much bigger. Jones-Bishop is very quick, but is being deployed on the wing as a waiting game for fullback, his natural position, to be vacated.

Roddy, we might not agree on this, but it is good to see a little bit of lively debate back on the Site, long may it continue.

Wouldn't say i was criticising the guy, it's obvious he's no speedster.

I think he's great at what he does best, comparing him to Hicks though and i would definitely agree Hicks shades it.

Hicks shades it? By a country mile in every department

Hicks is the best winger I've seen at the club (watching since 1993).

If you were looking at the best wingers in that time, Monaghan would still be in the top 5, possibly top 3. That he isn't Hicks isn't really his fault.

It's a valid opinion Browny, might have a think about my top 5 , although from a slightly longer perspective. I was responding to Yed's use of the phrase " just shades it", pedantry perhaps.

I've been critical of Monaghan M only to be met with the stats don't lie argument, fair enough and I've eaten a slice of 'Teesside's humble pie', based on recent performances. Long may that continue I don't want to see the guy 'fail', it was his attitude and demeanour I questioned.

Against Salford, I was sat in a spare seat in the North (instead of my usual spec standing in South), so had a different view when dropped a kick off return trying to catch it in front of his forehead, a school boy error.

I held myself back from a rant and was heartened by the obvious disappointment on the guy's face. As stats apart, I want all of our players to be interested, committed and to give it their best for the P&B. Errors occur in all walks of life, it's how you respond that counts.

I agree about Hicks, what a winger he was. Responsible for one of the most exciting and elating moments in my whole history of watching the Wire; the clinching try in the CCSF against Wigan in 2009.

Criticism would be fair if we new how much money he was on. If he was on top wack, you could say "hang on, I want someone with pace on the wing for that"

Monaghan has no pace at all, but he is strong and appears to get going quickly. The hits the line at pace as well, and reads the game well. Very rare I think to myself, he should have scored there, especially from short range.

The only issue is when he is supporting a break. A few times this season, I've seen players make breaks, and they have had to slow to wait for support.

I don't get the criticism of Myler. He hasn't really kicked on this season, but most of the squad has been disappointing for the majority of the last season.

Myler's pass is very good, he links superbly on the left hand side, we have undoubtedly missed him in that regard. His short range kicking is pretty good, but Briers takes care of that when he plays.

Briers missed plenty of games last season and we scored plenty of points with Myler calling the shots. Including against Saints and Huddlesfield at home, where I recall him setting crucial tries and being very influential?