Does that tell us more about Briers than the players who followed? Don't think the perfect replacement was ever out there.

We've had all different kinds of half back since he retired, some of them very good players.

In terms of his coaching, who knows what goes on on the training pitch. I also don't believe that just because he was so good, means he can teach that to our young half backs. It doesn't work like that

Aye farrell was a fantastic player, legend of the game.

Wigan won relatively little when Farrell was their leader. There wasn't much else around him. Although after he left, they completely fell into the abyss for a couple of years. Similar to what happened to us when Jonathan Davies left and a few months later we were rudderless and had the 80-0 disaster.

I think these winning teams need a core of about 4 to 5 players who are both very strong leaders but also very good players. Sometimes we can get too carried away with the narrative that we're one or two big leaders short, or that somebody who can stand and bark orders at players is what is needed. They need to be able to carry the respect of the team which also comes with being able to deliver themselves.

Now looking back at the TS era, I think the narrative of Leeds being in decline was overplayed. They still had their leadership group together till about 2015 and I would have swapped their squad for ours over that time just to have those players. It is probably not surprising that Leeds kept winning titles when people thought they were past their prime.

Agree with that Sally, you don't necessarily need a big personality to set standards on and off the field. You need a few to do it together and let the squad police itself to some extent.

I think the problem is that we don't know what Briers's role is. I would have thought he was taken on to coach our halves (1st team and youngsters coming through) being able to pass accurately off both sides, kick effectively and move the team around the field with authority and confidence. From what I've seen during his tenure it's not happening so don't know why he's there. I remember listening to him at a Q & A session before a game in the South Stand once. He was asked who is our most promising player coming through. He said "That's easy, Sam Wilde, he's going to be a superstar! (or something like that). I think he moved on to Widnes some 6 months later! Just saying!

Danny Orr is leaving Cas at the end of the year to - further his career. Wonder if he would be able to get our attack firing as an assistant...