Look, I know he's the greatest player you've had since Neil Fox but he did have off-days and this was one of them. I was there to see it and as a neutral so there's no bias from me.

Gary Freeman scored 2 tries in the 24-8 home win and Lewis got Wakefield's consolation effort - it was 5 tries to one in favour of Castleford.

I gave the main reason why it happened previously - the 'King' had been on the pi55 all night. If Freeman didn't 'run rings round' Lewis he certainly out-played him.

It was exactly that lack of professionalism that cost Lewis his place in the test team on the '82 Kangaroo tour - even though he was vice-captain. He didn't even make the sub's bench when Australia won the opening test at Boothferry Park.

Just because you keep saying it, won't make it true.

He wasn't that fast, he wasn't that elusive a runner, and you've overrated his defensive attributes.

Wally Lewis played with a level of vision and awareness that I've rarely seen, probably 2 or 3 other players in 40+ years of being involved in one way or another. His passing game was the best I've ever witnessed and I'm not just talking about his famed long passing ability which was peerless and sublime but his short passes, disguise and offloads were equally refined, he rarely took the wrong option or threw a poor pass.

Another remarkable quality was his pace over 20 - 30 metres, due to his obvious ability he was often closed down which rarely worked on him as he could step and accelerate into the holes left behind an advancing defender, once into the clear he found the support by varying his pace and angle, buying time until he could pick his pass.

I've seen front row forwards try to take him out and come off second best in collisions, even when Lewis got hit, cut and bloodied he maintained his involvement at the highest level and just got on with it, he was as tough as they make them.

Defensively he was right up there with anyone you wish to name and he often covered from touchline to touchline in order to prevent breaks.
His kicking game was a masterclass for anyone who wants to learn the art of controlling a game through territorial dominance and he also had a superb short kicking game, either a chip or a grabber over and through the defensive line.

He carried players over the try line in their threes and fours even at SoO and Test level, such was his balance, footwork, power but more importantly his will!

He was proud of his reputation, took the field ready to play and never shirked the responsibility his name and status placed upon his shoulders.

For me the best I've ever witnessed and certainly several classes above Andrew Johns

And he was such a brilliant half-back that 12 of his 26 test appearances were as a hooker - to accommodate such as Toovey, Langer and Kimmorley. Not indispensable (or an automatic choice) at scrum-half then was he ?

Those who go on about Johns' ability to 'tackle like a forward' miss the point - the truly illustrious half-backs like Murphy had the searing pace that elevated them from the merely outstanding. The absence of outrageous pace prevents me from nominating the genial Peter Sterling.

Brett Kenny is the best, most effortlessly brilliant player I've seen (sheer class, like poetry in motion, especially on the biggest of occasions) with Darren Lockyer right up there, although the older generation might go for Reg Gasnier, Johnny Raper or perhaps Bob Fulton.

Come on Andy. You and I both know that Gregory could pass a long distance to his left if he turned his back to the opposition.

It didn’t impede him much.

I’ve seen lots of scrum halves that can throw a long pass in either direction and most aren’t as good as Gregory was.

Or did you just watch him at Leeds?

Augustus John Ferdinand Risman

Has Jean hacked your account?

Doesn't count if you're going on history books. We all know he's a Hall of Fame original.

Did you see him ? And at his peak ?

JONATHAN DAVIES

Robert Rawhiri Hunter Paul

Unfortunately the question is actually going to be answered as who is your favourite player.
If you like backs rather than forwards or have seen more of your team and not much international, or you watched a particular era, it will sway your view.

If we do it by stats then Neil Fox is a serious contender
If we do it by effectiveness at club level then Ellery is a leader too
If we look at Internationals then the Aussies would be in the lead from 80s through till now.

Personally, Wally Lewis is the most effective, driven and skillful player I've seen, both in person and on tv. He has the advantage of playing with some great players at a great time for his teams......but in his case he made the others function and look good, rather than him looking good because of his team mates.
It's probably not used much now but I can't think of anyone else who has a part of the game or skill named after him. For a long time through 80s and 90s, a "very" long pass was called a Wally Lewis pass.
He was exceptional.

Roger Millward

Genuine question, for those who remember, how good was Stevo?

Stevo was a superb hooker and played a game that was ahead of his time.
Good hands, scooted quite a lot, had some pace and a terrific defender.

He went to Penrith and was a revelation along with another England hooker who IMO was better than Stevo, John Gray. You almost never ever hear anything about Gray but he was the standout English import in Australia for a number of years.

A mark of just how good he was is that in 1982, the year of the Invincible Kangaroos captained by Manly hooker Max Krillich, John Gray won the Dally M Hooker of the Year in the Winfield Cup (NRL).

Was fun reading this old thread.

Why did Brett Kenny stop playing for Australia at such a relatively young age (26 ish)? Did he retire from internationals or was he just not selected?

He's actually completely accurate & 100% correct

Testament can be found when if there was even a hint of injury or hint of a rumour that Johns might be out of the team, all betting across Australia was suspended, when he played Newcastle were inevitably favourites if he was actually out they'd plummet to long odds at the drop of a hat, he was so dominant

Can i have some???

Interesting that Slater hasn't been mentioned and Smith only fleetingly. 2 brilliant played who when this thread is run again in 5 years will feature more prominently.

Smith may well take the mantle from Johns, he's the only one who can

People are mentioning a lot of players who are pure athletes & incredibly agile

Smith & Johns were / are pure footy players, both incredible students of the game, both have brains as well as all the weapons they need / needed to play their position or turn a game on its head

Thurston is a bees prick away from these two, as a half he hasn't got the strength & defence of Johns

I think Thurston would get a lot more mentions now. Best player i've ever seen.

As was said in the thread, it's a subjective argument. With the WC been one day away, a special mention to the British indomitables team. Fantastic story and the last team to be unbeaten in a test series against Australia. When you see the journey they had, compared to Englands business Emirates flight, be interesting to compare the results. Some great players in that team. Gus Risman, Trevor Foster, Ernest Ward, Willie Horne.

i always though Thurston was very good but not great, but the last 4-5 years i have changed my mind, better than Johns and sterling, best Aussie 7 i have ever seen.

Here's my candidates from SL in the time I've been watching (2001 onwards). I appreciate Lockyer, Johns, Fitler, Thurston etc will be better but I've not watched enough NRL to comment:

Back - Richards
Adds so much value to a team. His strength was a big asset finishing off from close range and driving the ball out of his own 20. His height/aerial ability made him a big target for cross-field kicks, and made them a none-option for the opposition. A very strong defender which seemed to demand opposition teams mainly attacked the other wing. He could kick a drop out 50 metres before it bounced, kick a drop goal from half way, a very accurate goal kicker. The only negative I can think of for Richards is that he wasn't agile, but once he got going, nobody would catch him.

Halfback - Long
He just seemed to run teams ragged, great vision, controlled the game, brilliant field kicker. Man of steel, three time Lance Todd trophy winner. Saints won four Grand Finals, six Challenge Cups and two World Club Challenges with him, once he left they were a spent force. Most importantly, he proved he could do it at the top level by having stormers in the most recent two times we beat the aussies, including on their turf after Mason took him out with an elbow off the ball, Long went on to tear them apart. He did has his negatives, the major one obviously being his significant off-field issues. Also not a great defender and maybe lacking some pace, but I don't see how we can eulogise the aussies, yet ignore a halfback who took them apart twice in an inferior team.

Forward - Peacock
Props are bound to be overlooked in these threads because their job is focused on the tough stuff rather that throwing flashy passes or making full length breaks, yet people commonly say halves can't play behind a beaten pack. Peacock epiitomises that hard graft that goes unnoticed, and is clearly a great leader. No co-incidence that when he was at Bradford we had bullmania, then as soon as he left they went down the pan and the club he joined, Leeds, became the dominant force. Again, he's proved himself against the aussies, playing in our most recent three wins against them, and scoring tries in two of those games. His performance in the 2006 win was outstanding, putting Mason on his backside and dragging four players over the line to score are two of my all time favourite rugby moments. I can't even think of a negative for him really, I suppose if he had better handling skills he could have been even better, but that wasn't his role.

a combination of some niggley injuries, and the no nonsense from is everything approach of Aussie selectors. Players like Peter Jackson emerged as firstly a centre then even usurped wally at 6, pluslikes of mcgaw Et kept kenny out of a centre spot, meninga re emergence as a test centre and captain after a couple of lean years. laurie daley breaking through.

The Australian selectors were pretty ruthless back then and still are to some extent its one of the reasons they are so good they don't d**k about like we do, none of this "he aint international class" if some ones playing well they get a shirt and get given a go. we suffer badly at not having the guts to drop players and pick new players.

slightly off topic but its a shame more stand offs don't start out at centre so many great players started their trade at centre before moving to 6 after a few years learning the game there and gradually expanding there skill set. hopefully Sutcliffe at Leeds will start this way out, too many young halves either struggle to guide a team around or get shunted out to full back.
Daley, Fittler, schofield, jackson, and severel others started at centre,

Great player in an influential position. Interestingly his team still made the GF without him.