big is beautiful

Cas
Leeds
Bradford
Wigan
St Helens
Hull
Hull KR
Widnes
Wakefield
Featherstone
Halifax
Wire
Salford
Leigh

Super League to be expanded to 16 teams, with the top six playing off; Challenge Cup rounds played closer together and better promoted via the BBC; and the introduction of a pre season cup competition, to get rid of the meaningless friendlies.

1. Wigan. You cannot miss out Wigan.
2. St Helens. Because it's a good derby


3. Warrington
4. Salford, rebranded as 'Manchester Reds'. Look, I know that's not popular amongst Salford fans - "Cos Salford's a CITEH you know, we're not paaaaaar' o' Man-ches-toh", but it's for the good of the game's profile. It's called progress - deal with it. People have heard of Manchester. They've not heard of Salford. Even "Mr Manchester" Anthony H. Wilson was a Salfordian, really, you know.
5. Crusaders. They deserve it for the great strides they have made. They should be relocated back in South Wales OR if they stay in Wrexham...
6. Another team in South Wales. The Welsh are very competitive when it comes to rugby - either code. Two Welsh SL teams battling it out will be like a red rag to a bull for those men. Plus it won't do the Welsh national team any harm.
7. Leeds
8. Bradford
9. Harlequins
10. London Skolars. This team MUST be backed well and fast-tracked. If we're going to get national exposure, we MUST have adequate presence in London, and a local derby. Plus, I spoke to two of the lads than run the team when I watched them lose heavily to Saints reserves in Dublin a few years ago, and they were top lads. I want them to do well. They deserve it.
11. Hull FC
12. Hull KR
13. Cumbria. A difficult one, as whilst Cumbria is undoubtedly a heartland, where they love their RL, it's a motley collection of thinly spread out small towns. So the obvious question is where to site it, and which club to base it on. However, Barrow have recently come good, and that town is fairly populous, so it has to have the best shot. Also, if the proposed new road across Morecambe Bay goes ahead, then Barrow becomes a one hour drive to get to, instead of over two hours, which is a plus for them and us.
14. Castleford. More interesting than Huddersfield, and more passionate than Wakey. Plus, last time I went to Belle Vue, it rained and I got soaked.
15. Catalans
16. Toulouse Olympique. Yes, a second French team. I'm sick of Les Catalans dressing up in blue shirts every so often and calling themselves 'France'. That's not a national side - that's Catalans in a different shirt! The burn, however, is that in Robboworld, Catalans and Toulouse will be kicked out in 3, possibly six years, to spearhead a new professional French Super League, replaced by two teams from...

17. Huddersfield. But only if they can find a way to fill at least a third of their ground, gain a selling point, and be less boring. They are currently Super League's equivalent of Birmingham City, and less interesting than a slice of brown bread. I won't even go to a Wigan game involving Huddersfield because they bore me.
18. Widnes. They'd defo be invited to submit an application, but I would be tempted to decline them, just to p155 them off again. I've never really forgiven Widnes for breaking my heart on many occasions, and I've certainly not forgiven Jim Mills for bellyaching about Widnes missing out on the creation of super league because in his view they were historically one of the best teams. At that precise moment, however, they were horse, and couldn't win the toss, never mind a game.
19. Dublin Storm. I've invented this team, because it would be a magnificent up.

Seeing as obscenely long posts are becoming commonplace in this thread, I'll throw this into the mix:

[i[uDomestic Season[/u[/i - Approx 32 weeks.
[iAll Star Challenge[/i
Season Opener in the Union Rose Stadium. If no effort is made to create a home stadium for Rugby League, allow the fixture to travel for maximum attendance.
Great Britain All Stars vs Super League All Stars
SL All Stars from all non-GB players in Super League teams.
To ideally be played the same weekend as the NRL All Stars match.

[iRed Rose Super League[/i - Franchise entry. Home and Away matches within League, one match against all WRSL teams.
Wigan Warriors
Warrington Wolves
St. Helens
Cumbria Raiders
North Wales Reds
South Wales Blues
Catalans Dragons
Toulouse Olympique

[iWhite Rose Super League[/i - Franchise entry. Home and Away matches within League, one match against all RRSL teams.
Bradford Bulls
Leeds Rhinos
Hull FC
Hull KR
Huddersfield Giants
Trinity Tigers/Calder Cougars/whatever
Harlequins RL
Stratford Skolors

Total Matches per team in regular rounds of SL: 22. Winners of each league earn respective trophies.
In addition to this lower number, a player restriction of 18 regular SL games would be in place to ensure greater squad utilisation. This would aim not only to increase the amount of SL games young players would be a part of, but could reduce the impact of injuries to teams, and to encourage greater squad rotation to keep players fresh. Banned players will count as if playing on this requirement.
It would also allow for greater absorbtion of losses when the War of the Roses matches are on.

[i Super League Playoff Structure [/i - Similar to now
Week One
1st RRSL vs 2nd WRSL - Winner Week off
1st WRSL vs 2nd RRSL - Winner Week off
3rd RRSL vs 4th RRSL - Loser Eliminated
3rd WRSL vs 4th RRSL - Loser Eliminated

Week Two
Loser Match 1 vs Winner Match 3
Loser Match 2 vs Winner Match 4

Week Three
Winner Match 1 vs Winner Match 6
Winner Match 2 vs Winner Match 5

Week Four
Winners previous week contest for SL trophy.

[iWorld Club Challenge[/i
The week after the Super League final (aimed to be the same weekend as the NRL final) the Super League winners play the NRL winners.
The match is to be contested in the country that will be holding the Elite internationals that year.

[iRed Rose Cup[/i
[iWhite Rose Cup[/i
Mimick their Super League counterparts, with potential SL teams, playing rosters boosted by dual-contracted Super League youngsters.
Rose Cup Winners can apply for Super League franchises.

[iContinental Cup[/i
Aims for progression in European teams. Initial start with Southern French teams, branching to Spain, Italy, Northern France, Germany etc...long term plans to move Continental SL clubs into their own Super League.
Continental Cup winners may apply for Super League franchises.

[iCeltic Cup[/i
Aims for progression and serves as base for non-English team development within the British Isles.
CC Wales
CC Scotland
CC N.Ireland
CC Ireland
Top Two teams from each sub-league enter a top 8 playoff system to decide Celtic Cup Champions.
Celtic Cup winners may apply for Super League franchises.


[iChallenge Cup[/i

All European Clubs allowed entry into the Challenge Cup.
Top Players with SL teams will be playing a Maximum of 5 games.

[iWar of the Roses[/i
Red Roses vs White Roses
Battle of the two leagues. European players only, meaning French/Welsh etc can play for either team, provided of course that they are good enough.
Player distribution between teams is based upon the first SL match played by the player.
Three game series to tie in with State of Origin matches.

[iMaximum Player Load (for people like Peacock who moan):[/i
18 Regular SL Games
4 Playoff Games
5 Challenge Cup Games
3 WotR Games
And 4-6 International games makes it
34-36 Games per season max.

In no particular order:

1. Wigan
2. Saints
3. Leeds
4. Hull FC
5. Hull KR
6. Bradford
7. Giants
8. Wakefield- Stadium build complete
9. Castleford- Stadium build complete
10. Salford
11. Wire
12. Les Cats
13. Quins - would much prefer Fax!!!
14. Widnes

Harlequins RL
Huddersfield
Catalans
Crusaders
Lezignan
Castleford
Bradford
Halifax
Warrington
Leeds
Wigan
St Helens
Hull FC
Hull KR

Or alternatively....

Simply bring back P&R with the stipulation expansion teams can't get relegated. Its not ideal but clubs would rather have that than no P&R altogether.

I feel sorry for Cas and Wakey fans. How can someone in a suit play God and decide who he wants in Super League and affecting thousands of peoples lives. Bring back P&R, its not perfect, but its the sporting way.

Old fasioned P&R based solely on performance is outdated and bad business and is therefore bad for the game. Especially when one league is fully pro and one is largely semi-pro. Its one thing that puts us ahead of other major sports in this country and will stand us in good health for years to come.

Why is it sporting to reward a club to that channels all of its dosh into the playing squad and punish those that invest in strengthening all aspects of their RL club?

Hold on a darned minute! We are much better than Castleford; We have a ground! I don't think it holds any argument that we have this idea about Huddersfield being boring, we're boring because we've recieved little attention (to the extent Sky we're using our old badge for 2 years after we replaced it) and we've had our nearest thing to a rival, Halifax, kicked out of Super League. If your going to keep Cas, keep Wakey as well, or kick them both out.



Agreed.

It is bad for clubs that then find it nigh on impossible to attract investement

All it does do is show how weak our sport is compared to most other major sports

tada! We have a winner!
Rugby League, regardless of what some of out learned friends on these boards would try to have you believe is a 3rd rate sport when compared to Soccer and the kick and clap lot. This statement is not based on actual enjoyment, skill levels or even loyalty of supporters...it is based on what an advertiser will pay to have their ad show during an event. The RUWC final featuring England Rugby Union will always attract a higher premium than a 4 nations final featuring England RL.
Not only is the Union game on free to air TV (as are all the other games and they have the full might of free to air promo's in the build up) but the image of league as a flat capped, pigeon fanciers sport will take more than 15 years of SL coverage (2 games, 1 midweek show) to overcome.
Rugby League in the UK is far stronger today than it was in 1994.........it just needs another 15+ years to really kick on! As it is, Namibia v Japan in next years RUWC will probably attract a bigger UK tv audience than England v the Kiwis in October and most definitely a bigger GLOBAL audience....and if you are Procter & Gamble...GLOBAL means exactly that.....not 1 road in the UK and 2 states in Australia.
Lewis is no mug. He has a plan, his organisation turns a profit and he has a long term strategy.....even if it's at the expense of traditional clubs. These clubs on the outside looking in should cut their cloth accordingly, budget for long term growth and apply only when it's impossible for them to be ignored. They will not die.....but they will struggle.......all the while others who are currently at the top table will fall...........and they will get their chance.
IMO that is.

In reality though it just won't work in certain areas. E.g. you could create a mega-successful SL team in Glasgow but attendances would always be poor because it's been a football city for so long and always will be.

Likewise you could create a club in London, give them 30 years of 2nd chances, a wealthy tycoon who gets them to a CC Final and they still wouldn't sell out their allocation in their own city against a club like say Leeds - there just isn't the interest there.

You miss the KEY point of the exercise now!!

It's not bums on seats it's eyes on the box and whose eyes they are.

Mo & Ron Ball's game attracts the large audiences but does not always attract the large advertising premiums.

It's about advertising.

Yeah but what are the (average) viewing figures in London compared to everywhere else? Low I would imagine!

A. Not a hope in hell.

b. Wouldn`t that be a bit confusing for Tigers supporters?


My 14 in no particular order.
Saints
Wire
Leeds
Hull F.C.
Hull K.R.
Cas
Wigan
Widnes
Fax
Salford
Wakey
Bradford
Huddersfield
Fev

SL1
Bradford
Leeds
Wigan
Saints
Hull
Hull KR
Cas
Wakey
Widnes
Wire
Catalans
Hudds
Barrow

SL2
Quins
Crusaders
Oldham
Fax
Fev
York
Haven
Workington
Leigh
Salford
Toulouse
Skolars

Top two go up
bottom two go down

SL1 to keep play offs (top5)

[uSuper League Premiership[/u

Eastern Conference
Wigan Warriors
St Helens
Widnes Vikings
Warington Wolves
South Wales Scorpions (Relocated to Cardiff/Llanelli/Newport/Bridgend)
Crusaders
Reds (Based in Salford, but Renamed Reds to appeal to a bigger audience)
Barrow Raiders (move to either Carlisle/Renovate)

Western Conference
Leeds Rhinos
Huddersfield Giants
Hull
Hull KR
Bradford Bulls
Halfiax Blue Sox
Catalans Dragons
Toulouse Olympique

Play-Offs
Qualifiers:
Winner Each Conference
Runners Up Each Conference
One 'Wildcard' Place (3rd Western vs 3rd Eastern)

[uWeek One[/u
1. Winner Western vs Winner Eastern
2. Loser Game 1 vs Wildcard
3. Runner Up Western vs Runner Up Eastern

[iWinner Game 1 recieves bye to the final[/i

[uWeek Two[/u
4. Winner Game 2 vs Winner Game 3

[iWinner Goes through to the final[/i

[uWeek Three[/u
Winner Game 1 vs Winner Game 4

[uGame Schedule[/u
3 x Derby Match (Home/Away/Manchester Magic)
2 x Regular Match from Your Own Conference (Home/Away)
1 x Regular Match from 4 Clubs in Other Conference (seeded)
19 x Matches.

[uPoints System[/u
Win Over 30 Points, 3 Points
Win Under 30 Points, 2 Points
Win After Golden Point, 2 Points
Loss After Golden Point, 1 Point
Loss by Under 4 Points, 1 Point
Loss by Over 4 Points, 0 Points

Super League Championship

Fetherstone Rovers
Blackpool Panthers
Leigh Centurions
Keighley Cougars
Wakefield Wildcats
Dublin Raiders
Stade Francais
Fulham Lions
Whitehaven
Workington Town
Hunslet Hawks
Sheffield Eagles
Batley Bulldogs
Dewsbury Rams

Play Each Other Home/Away, top 8 go through to play off, like in SL now.

So what you are saying is that because we regularly beat you (as we have all the other clubs at one point or another over the years), we dont deserve Super League? You also appear to be saying that if ever a club loses a few games and isnt playing as well as they might, they should be dumped from the top flight.

Glad you arent actually capable of putting this fantasy SL into action, because your logic is utter shoyte.

For me it would be to get to 2 full time leagues. P&R between Superleague 1 and 2; apply for re-election (points based system) to go between National Elite and SL2.

So which clubs in the second tier are likely to be able to get to support full time Rugby League and add to the competition.

Barrow
Sheffield
South Wales (if it can represent the whole of South Wales - we need a team to tap into the player pool down there like we did in the good old days. A Gus Risman for the 21st Century to take a new Cumbria team to winners of the Challenge Cup in 7 years).

Big city Conference Clubs that may really step up into Championship 1 in the future.

Edinburgh Eagles (unbeaten in the regular season last year and this year) - They were the club rumoured to be joining NL2 a few seasons ago.

Would love to say
Coventry Bears (Butts Arena had RL played there prior to WW1 and would make a great Championship ground although probably not big enough for SL). They are Midlands Grand Finalists yet again.
Nottingham Outlaws - Doing OK in the National Conference and the area has experience semi-pro Rugby in the past.

Mergers / Joint Ventures

West Cumbria Atoms (joint venture Town;Haven and Wealthy Backers).

Other Sporting Clubs who are rumoured to express an interest in an RL Side

Paris Stade Francais
Barcelona (connection with Les Catalans)

So for me I'd like to see

Barcelona
Barrow
Bradford Northern
Castleford
Coventry Bears
Edinburgh Eagles
Huddersfield
Hull
Hull KR
Leeds
Les Catalans
London Broncos
Nottingham Outlaws
Sheffield Eagles
Paris Stade Francais
Salford [can't believe people would want to drop the team of Lance Todd - The Toddy Toddlers in the 1930s predating the 1950s Busby Babes down the road - Potential in the new Stadium and outreach to Manchester.
Sheffield Eagles
St Helens
Toulouse [Promised a position SL1 with the other Paris. Doing OK in a mixed semi-pro full time league.
Wakefield Trinity [aren't they the biggest City without professional Association Football; seems like bags of untapped potential even though they're an established SL club
West Cumbria Atoms
Warrington
Wigan
Wrexham

Making 24 teams - so two leagues of 12.

wrexham, edinburgh, belfast, salford, gateshead, barcelona, st helens, toulouse, leeds, halifax, london, amsterdam, new york and moscow

The best idea was Albert Rosenfeld suggesting Salford rename to Manchester United RLFC.

I think they should be called the Reds, or City Reds, because that way, you don't have 'Manchestoh' getting them annoyed, but don't have Salford, restricting the fan base.

You could apply the same logic to every team, giving an ideal Super League of...

Reds
Blues
Greens
Whites
Blacks
Yellows
Oranges
Purples
Pinks
Turquoises
Puces
Vermillions
Cerises
Magnolias
White With A Hint of Apples

Watch the fans flood in!

1. Wigan Warriors
2. St Helens
3. Warrington Wolves
4. Bradford Bulls
5. Leeds
6. Hull KR
7. Salford City Reds
8. Huddersfield
9. Leicester Tigers RL
10. Widnes Vikings
11. Hull FC
12. Castleford Tigers
13. Wrexham Crusaders
14. Barrow / Cumbria
15. Newcastle
16. Halifax