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| One of the good things about supporting a top club like Leeds in this golden spell of the last few seasons, is the fact that after a major trophy win, out of the woodwork comes the fans of the perennial under achievers of modern day Rugby League.
Whether its the simple gormlessness of Humbersiders, or the whinging bitterness of delusional Wigganers, the morning after entertainment value is almost on a par with the actual winning of the Trophy!
Long may it continue.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Winners find a way to win, losers make excuses.
If Manly want to be world champions then they needed to win. They couldnt. If that was down to a lack of preparation on their part? Thats a failing in their squad, its a weakness to be exploited no different to how you would try and exploit a small pack, or poor defending around the ruck.
That wasnt Manly's greatest performance, but it was nowhere near there worst. There are probably 5 or 6 SL sides who could crack the NRL and be competitive there, some at the top end.
There is a simple way of checking, play more games.'"
Smokey, whilst I can only imagine your euphoria of seeing your club crowned ‘World Champions’, surely you don’t think this statement is correct.
The Aussies play at W.C.C intensity week on week, there’s no way any SL club would make the play-offs in the NRL. They would be bumping along with the Sharkies & Titans.
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| Quote ="BillyRhino"One of the good things about supporting a top club like Leeds in this golden spell of the last few seasons, is the fact that after a major trophy win, out of the woodwork comes the fans of the perennial under achievers of modern day Rugby League.
Whether its the simple gormlessness of Humbersiders, or the whinging bitterness of delusional Wigganers, the morning after entertainment value is almost on a par with the actual winning of the Trophy!
Long may it continue.
'"
100% on the money! It's the gift that keeps on giving! Unfortunately I'm in brisbane on business and not back in the syders office till Friday when I can get stuck into the Manly fans.
As you rightly point out the SL Leeds hate crew just make our victories sweeter!
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| Leeds did very well to win. Great defence. Ryan hall always seems to performed in the big games. However lets not kid ourselves. The sl clubs have an advantage. One side is in pre season while one side isnt. How could that not be an advantage? Now of course it would be great to see the australians take it more seriously but cant see it happening. NRL is everything! !
5 or 6 sides in SL that could compete in the top end of the NRL? Not a chance!! 4 Max and even then they would need time to adjust for the intensity week in week out.
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| Quote ="liger05"Leeds did very well to win. Great defence. Ryan hall always seems to performed in the big games. However lets not kid ourselves. The sl clubs have an advantage. One side is in pre season while one side isnt. How could that not be an advantage? Now of course it would be great to see the australians take it more seriously but cant see it happening. NRL is everything! !
5 or 6 sides in SL that could compete in the top end of the NRL? Not a chance!! 4 Max and even then they would need time to adjust for the intensity week in week out.'"
This.
Watching the NRL for me is watching a different breed of Rugby. However Manly putting out an unfit side does no favours to how people see the competition over here. Anyone who watches the NRL must know how intense that competition is.
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| I do find it amusing how people always crow on about SL clubs having an advantage when they clearly forget that the NRL sides have a far larger salary cap and therefore can attract better players. If Leeds had a salary cap similar to Manly, imagine the players they'd have (as well as other top SL clubs).
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"I do find it amusing how people always crow on about SL clubs having an advantage when they clearly forget that the NRL sides have a far larger salary cap and therefore can attract better players. If Leeds had a salary cap similar to Manly, imagine the players they'd have (as well as other top SL clubs).'"
They'd have exactly the same squad quality, but they'd be paying them more. A larger salary cap won't increase the number of top quality players we produce or, to any great extent, the number of players coming over from Aus.
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"I do find it amusing how people always crow on about SL clubs having an advantage when they clearly forget that the NRL sides have a far larger salary cap and therefore can attract better players. If Leeds had a salary cap similar to Manly, imagine the players they'd have (as well as other top SL clubs).'"
Your forgetting Australia just produce better players.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"They'd have exactly the same squad quality, but they'd be paying them more. A larger salary cap won't increase the number of top quality players we produce or, to any great extent, the number of players coming over from Aus.'"
Nonsense.
Paying a player more money won't make them a better player. But being able to offer other players more money will either attract them to your club or retain them (i.e. we've just seen some players leave to union and the NRL).
I'm not saying I want the cap to increase (it would create a huge gulf in class between top and bottom, as the better clubs will attract the better players from the less successful clubs). But to say they'd have exactly the same squad is ludicrous.
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| Quote ="liger05"Your forgetting Australia just produce better players.'"
And? This is club rugby, not rep rugby. If you've got a bigger wallet, you can bring in better players even if you can't produce as many.
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Regarding Leeds World Club Challenge victory, is 2 SL games really an adequate preparation for such a game? May be Leeds need 10 SL games in preparation to get their defence bob on . After all SL is by far inferior to the NRL, so we keep being told. Unlike a few people on this topic, the Manly coach has no excuses www.therhinos.co.uk/news/18747.php
Well Done Leeds
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Regarding Leeds World Club Challenge victory, is 2 SL games really an adequate preparation for such a game? May be Leeds need 10 SL games in preparation to get their defence bob on . After all SL is by far inferior to the NRL, so we keep being told. Unlike a few people on this topic, the Manly coach has no excuses www.therhinos.co.uk/news/18747.php
Well Done Leeds
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"Smokey, whilst I can only imagine your euphoria of seeing your club crowned ‘World Champions’, surely you don’t think this statement is correct.
The Aussies play at W.C.C intensity week on week, there’s no way any SL club would make the play-offs in the NRL. They would be bumping along with the Sharkies & Titans.'"
No they dont. Its a myth, they dont play at WCC intensity week on week. They have games which arent intense and arent at a high quality, they have games which are pretty poor. They have good teams and they have bad teams, they have games where they dont have to try as hard. They just dont have as many of them as we do.
There isnt a massive difference between the best teams in the NRL and the best teams in SL, in a one off match any of Leeds, St's, Wigan, Wire could beat any of the top NRL teams.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"No they dont. Its a myth, they dont play at WCC intensity week on week. They have games which arent intense and arent at a high quality, they have games which are pretty poor. They have good teams and they have bad teams, they have games where they dont have to try as hard. They just dont have as many of them as we do.
There isnt a massive difference between the best teams in the NRL and the best teams in SL, in a one off match any of Leeds, St's, Wigan, Wire could beat any of the top NRL teams.'"
Yes they have good teams, Melbourne, Wests, etc.
Yes they have bad teams, as I've already alluded to, Sharks, Titans et al.
But you won't get me to believe out top clubs are on a par with the Aussies, in fact.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"There are probably 5 or 6 SL sides who could crack the NRL and be competitive there, some at the top end. '"
Quote ="Nigel Wood""We've got four, five, six clubs that are the match of the sides in the NRL. '"
You are Nigel Wood, and I claim my £5 .
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"No they dont. Its a myth, they dont play at WCC intensity week on week.'"
Indeed, NRL clubs play at an NRL intensity level week in, week out which is higher than pre-season warm-up fixtures including the WCC.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"They have games which arent intense and arent at a high quality, they have games which are pretty poor. They have good teams and they have bad teams, they have games where they dont have to try as hard. They just dont have as many of them as we do.'"
This is correct to a degree, notwithstanding the superior differences in quality, intensity and competition apparent in the NRL in comparison to SL. Good teams and bad teams in the NRL are transient in nature due to the intense competition. Nine different clubs have been NRL champions in the past 14 seasons. 12 different clubs have made the Grand Final in the same period. Of the 4 teams that haven't, they've all qualified for the play-offs at one stage or another. A bad NRL team one season can be a good team and Grand Finalists or Champions a year or two later. Roosters went from wooden spooners in 2009 to Grand Finalists in 2010. Wests Tigers won the comp the first time they qualified for the play-offs. Penrith went from wooden spooners in 2001, 3rd from bottom in 2002 to champions in 2003. Titans finished 3rd in 2009, 4th in 2010 and wooden spooners in 2011.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"There isnt a massive difference between the best teams in the NRL and the best teams in SL, in a one off match any of Leeds, St's, Wigan, Wire could beat any of the top NRL teams.'"
But only if those fixtures are played in the UK under the current format and at a time corresponding to pre-season warm-up games for NRL teams. Should the WCC be expanded on a home and away basis with an on-season or off-season level playing field format applying equally to both, the results will be an embarrassment for the SL clubs on a scale of 1997 all over again.
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"Quote ="Rock God X"They'd have exactly the same squad quality, but they'd be paying them more. A larger salary cap won't increase the number of top quality players we produce or, to any great extent, the number of players coming over from Aus.'"
Nonsense.
Paying a player more money won't make them a better player. But being able to offer other players more money will either attract them to your club or retain them (i.e. we've just seen some players leave to union and the NRL).
I'm not saying I want the cap to increase (it would create a huge gulf in class between top and bottom, as the better clubs will attract the better players from the less successful clubs). But to say they'd have exactly the same squad is ludicrous.'"
The other top clubs would also spend up to the cap, so the real top quality players would be just as evenly split as they are now. Being able to cream off some of the better players from the lower clubs would certainly increase squad depth, but it wouldn't make a significant difference to the quality of the first 17 the top sides are putting out.
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| Quote ="Keith Swiftcorn"But only if those fixtures are played in the UK under the current format and at a time corresponding to pre-season warm-up games for NRL teams. Should the WCC be expanded on a home and away basis with an on-season or off-season level playing field format applying equally to both, the results will be an embarrassment for the SL clubs on a scale of 1997 all over again.'"
So, in the game actually played, the Super League team won but in the games played in your imagination the NRL teams win? It’s really difficult to win an argument when you are arguing against facts with opinions isn’t it
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| Quote ="Rock God X"The other top clubs would also spend up to the cap, so the real top quality players would be just as evenly split as they are now. Being able to cream off some of the better players from the lower clubs would certainly increase squad depth, but it wouldn't make a significant difference to the quality of the first 17 the top sides are putting out.'"
So the rich get richer and the poor please themselves. The less successful clubs already get "cherry picked" and you are advocating creaming off more players.
That may held a faux WCC, but will not help the domestic game.
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Quote ="Dwayne Dibley"Regarding Leeds World Club Challenge victory, is 2 SL games really an adequate preparation for such a game? May be Leeds need 10 SL games in preparation to get their defence bob on . After all SL is by far inferior to the NRL, so we keep being told. Unlike a few people on this topic, the Manly coach has no excuses www.therhinos.co.uk/news/18747.php
Well Done Leeds
'"
Its not about excuses it's just more of accepting that the SL clubs have an advantage. I dont see how that can be disputed.
As for the difference in quality between the top sides from sl and the nrl I can agree with that but what sets them apart is they can't have days off and still win. In the nrl u need to be up to scratch every week or you come unstuck. The gap between top and bottom is so much smaller and u see less blowouts.
I would like to see the wcc expanded but 4 teams maximum or it will be embarrassing.
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Quote ="Dwayne Dibley"Regarding Leeds World Club Challenge victory, is 2 SL games really an adequate preparation for such a game? May be Leeds need 10 SL games in preparation to get their defence bob on . After all SL is by far inferior to the NRL, so we keep being told. Unlike a few people on this topic, the Manly coach has no excuses www.therhinos.co.uk/news/18747.php
Well Done Leeds
'"
Its not about excuses it's just more of accepting that the SL clubs have an advantage. I dont see how that can be disputed.
As for the difference in quality between the top sides from sl and the nrl I can agree with that but what sets them apart is they can't have days off and still win. In the nrl u need to be up to scratch every week or you come unstuck. The gap between top and bottom is so much smaller and u see less blowouts.
I would like to see the wcc expanded but 4 teams maximum or it will be embarrassing.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Quote ="Rock God X"The other top clubs would also spend up to the cap, so the real top quality players would be just as evenly split as they are now. Being able to cream off some of the better players from the lower clubs would certainly increase squad depth, but it wouldn't make a significant difference to the quality of the first 17 the top sides are putting out.'"
So the rich get richer and the poor please themselves. The less successful clubs already get "cherry picked" and you are advocating creaming off more players.
That may held a faux WCC, but will not help the domestic game.'"
Er, I think you need to read my post(s) again. I'm advocating no such thing.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"Er, I think you need to read my post(s) again. I'm advocating no such thing.'"
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| Quote ="Rock God X"British clubs have dominated this competition for long enough. You really don't think that has anything at all to do with the timing/location of the fixture? '"
Australian Clubs had won the last 3 WCCs including a Manly win over Leeds if it escaped your attention.
That Manly win came when they came over 2 weeks before and played a warm up game. The Manly coaching staff and players made a conscious decision not to do that this time. They considred their preparation would be sufficient to beat Leeds. They were wrong.
Maybe they should have consulted you as you clearly know about how to prepare for a WCC than Geoff Toovey and his team.
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| Quote ="G1"Quote ="Rock God X"British clubs have dominated this competition for long enough. You really don't think that has anything at all to do with the timing/location of the fixture? '"
Australian Clubs had won the last 3 WCCs including a Manly win over Leeds if it escaped your attention.
That Manly win came when they came over 2 weeks before and played a warm up game. The Manly coaching staff and players made a conscious decision not to do that this time. They considred their preparation would be sufficient to beat Leeds. They were wrong.
Maybe they should have consulted you as you clearly know about how to prepare for a WCC than Geoff Toovey and his team.'"
Or perhaps they decided that coming over two weeks early and playing a warm up game would have been too disruptive to their preparations for the (more important) NRL season, so they would risk playing the game without a warm up.
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"Yes they have good teams, Melbourne, Wests, etc.
Yes they have bad teams, as I've already alluded to, Sharks, Titans et al.
But you won't get me to believe out top clubs are on a par with the Aussies, in fact.
You are Nigel Wood, and I claim my £5
.'"
In a one off match? there is no question. Would they be able to play with that intensity for a full season? Probably not, but then not even Manly play with full intensity every week.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"Or perhaps they decided that coming over two weeks early and playing a warm up game would have been too disruptive to their preparations for the (more important) NRL season, so they would risk playing the game without a warm up.'"
If they were that good they wouldnt need to pick and choose.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Quote ="Rock God X"Or perhaps they decided that coming over two weeks early and playing a warm up game would have been too disruptive to their preparations for the (more important) NRL season, so they would risk playing the game without a warm up.'"
If they were that good they wouldnt need to pick and choose.'"
Pick and choose what?
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