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| I have a funny feeling you were never on ignore GF.
What will always happen with trolls is their mask will slip.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Agree 100% with everything you say...especially the last bit. I have been attacked for saying it, called a Union Troll, a vichy collaborator and generally targeted by the self appointed defenders of the RL faith on here......but Rugby League, like it or not, CAN LEARN A LOT FROM THE IRB.
Seriously.....countries PAY the IRB to host the RUWC.....then these countries have to Finance the whole thing whilst the IRB manages to generate all the additional revenues from TV deals (individual 8 year deals to maximise potential revenue and Exposure) and merchandise....everything about their organisation is geared to spread the game and generate cash.
In the UK, lOCAL Union clubs, in the main, own their own grounds, clubhouses etc....league clubs generally don't. Union clubs receive funding from a central pool if required....the RFU are light years ahead of the RFL. Harlequins v London Irish got 75k fans for a regular season game and yet RL fans are fretting about a double header at Wembley not getting the 40k Saracens get for a regular game there.....the first attempt at and English SOO is being played at a 'SAFE" ground......
Australian SOO got 33k+ for their first game......the average gate for a regular season game that year????......9,881
This is where the NRL are streets ahead of the RFL.....but until the balance of power (and money) shifts from club to country, then league will always play second fiddle IMO...
.'"
But why should it have to shift from club to country? Football isnt like that. In Football the clubs come first and always will. Union is unique in the sense that the national sides are the main attraction but thats probably more down to the fact that before it went professional who really gave a damn about club rugby union?
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| Every thing in football is geared to the big events, world cup, European cup, champions league.
Just because some of europes leagues are massive international football still takes precendence.
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| Quote ="liger1994"But why should it have to shift from club to country? Football isnt like that. In Football the clubs come first and always will. Union is unique in the sense that the national sides are the main attraction but thats probably more down to the fact that before it went professional who really gave a damn about club rugby union?'"
exactly
a strong club game means more than 2 or 3 internationals every year
clubs have roots in their cities and communities ....
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| funniest thing is seeing a half page of people on ignore chirping away ...i wonder to myself are they still here ...i thought they said they dont like this topic ...lol
and im not taking people off ignore so stop getting fellow posters to ask me on your behalf ....
lol just accept that this is my way of dealing with people who i dont rate as posters
sorry guys
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| Quote ="liger1994"But why should it have to shift from club to country?'"
Currently, 30 clubs, of whom about 10% are profitable, run the game of Rugby League...whilst, Union, through a strong international leadership, is run from the top down.
League's method is aking to the tail wagging the dog IMO. 30 club owners and 2 TV companies dictating the direction the game goes in....the RLIF just do as they are told.
As for soccer....whilst club footie is important, it is not profitable at all....not at all....and FIFA don't make a penny from it....I suspect that clubs like Brentford who are treading water and probably breaking even are better for The FA than clubs like Man United and Liverpool..up to their eyes in debt. I doubt many A-League clubs make a profit.....the Phoenix cost its owner NZ$5,000,000 a year.....clubs are costly and internationals generate more revenue for the governing bodies....except in League
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| Quote ="Sheldon"Every thing in football is geared to the big events, world cup, European cup, champions league.
Just because some of europes leagues are massive international football still takes precendence.'"
Please. The world cup is every 4 years and thats it. Outside of that the fans care about there clubs and thats it. The Champions league is the biggest thing in football. International games mean something at the major events and thats it. The fact that outside these major events you see a whole bunch of players pull out of squads only to be fit for the next club game tells u all you need to know. The clubs rule the roost. The biggest tv deals are dictated by the clubs. Football could easily survive without international football.
Quote Currently, 30 clubs, of whom about 10% are profitable, run the game of Rugby League...whilst, Union, through a strong international leadership, is run from the top down.
League's method is aking to the tail wagging the dog IMO. 30 club owners and 2 TV companies dictating the direction the game goes in....the RLIF just do as they are told.
As for soccer....whilst club footie is important, it is not profitable at all....not at all....and FIFA don't make a penny from it....I suspect that clubs like Brentford who are treading water and probably breaking even are better for The FA than clubs like Man United and Liverpool..up to their eyes in debt. I doubt many A-League clubs make a profit.....the Phoenix cost its owner NZ$5,000,000 a year.....clubs are costly and internationals generate more revenue for the governing bodies....except in League'"
As I said totally different situations. Rugby Union has never really had a strong club culture. There was never a case where it was the clubs who took precedence and then suddenly Rugby Union changed. International rugby union has always come 1st.
Club football not profitable? Maybe in Australia but in Europe is hugely profitable. Fifa may not make a penny but as I said football could easily survive without the governing bodies. In fact Uefa got so scared that the top european clubs would break away and form there own tournament they changed the rules of the CL to allow more sides in it. The clubs could easily if they wanted break away and get a huge tv deal without the stamp of approval from governing bodies.
The English premiership broke away from the FA for the simple reason that the clubs believed they could maximise revenues and produce a better product with there own vision without the FA (governing body) calling the shots and they was right.
Even Cricket now the governing bodies are scared to death of the poplularity of the IPL. The IPL is where the money is.
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Quote ="dally messenger"1. Exaggerate about your crowdsl'"
We do that in the NRL.
Quote ="dally messenger"2. Try and con the world that your world cup is popular by multiplying the real figures by a factor 20l'"
I've never looked p figures, because I'm not that interested, so I just did and found this form the IRB themselves about the 2007 World Cup
Backing up the record attendance figures was massive interest from international broadcasters. In total 119 international broadcasters televised the action across 202 TV territories with a potential cumulative reach of over 4.2 billion (up 800 million on RWC 2003). Live coverage also increased dramatically on 2003 levels from 5,500 hours to over 8,500 broadcast hours (up 3,000 hours).
www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/ ... 22301.html
I don't know if you know what the word potential means, but it clearly says they can get to and doesn't say they did. A bit like our World Cup will be televised to so many countries next time round as brought up by Manly. The potential is huge, the reality of a worldwide viewing audience is less.
Quote ="dally messenger"3. Get friends in the media and politics to give special favours others dont get, espeically when your clubs go broke'"
www.dailytelegraph.com.au
Looking at the front page of this major paper's website shows that League is far more represented than say Union. It even has it's own section on the front page, separate to a Sports section, where you'll find other sports, including RL again.
As for politics, we have some important people at state level now who are behind giving RL a leg up. Including a few old North Sydney fans who have promised to build facilities if the bid is successful at Mt Colah. On a national level, Shadow Treasurer, Joe Hockey is a massive Bears fan and has done lots for the CC Bears bid. There are more, look them up.
Quote ="dally messenger"4. When you have lost a fair competition with rival sports get the government to intervene to save you ....if this government is connected with the Nazis who cares people will forget'"
OK. Fair call. This did happen and was disgusting.
Quote ="dally messenger"5. Fight rival sports for 100 years over certain issues then at the drop of the hat adopted those things yourself without any apologies for the war youve created'"
Fight? What fight? What war? That seems a bit sensationalist, though I do understand that RU have looked down at RL for many years. But in Oz, is that as true as it would be in the UK?
Quote ="dally messenger"6. Treat working class clubs and players differenetly to non WC clubs and players'"
This would have happen and still does to a much smaller degree, but again, does it in Oz as much? You played Union, what was it like? I'm from a London Comprehensive. We played football. The association version. That's what most of the working class played. In the norths they could also play League.
Quote ="dally messenger"7. when picking your national test side ensure that the lads come from university and posh schools, ensuring WC kids dont get a similar chance of getting picked'"
How many working class kids played Union when this sort of thing was prevelant.
I do understand what you're trying to say about how poor RL WAS treated by Union. Yes, I'm from a working class background and have been effected in England by the class led society and have been judged by my accent, appearance and the school I went to (which coincidentally was made infamous years later when the headmaster was stabbed to death outside in Maida Vale). But blimey, Charles Dickens is dead now. The Gin Palaces are shut. We've moved on. Things aren't that bad, there is no conspiracy theory. Let's concentrate on what we need to do. RL is a great sport and the more the negatives are highlighted the more they are focused on. I'm not sure there is some manifesto to obliterate league by Union. We are different. Let's celebrate that and move forward.
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Quote ="dally messenger"1. Exaggerate about your crowdsl'"
We do that in the NRL.
Quote ="dally messenger"2. Try and con the world that your world cup is popular by multiplying the real figures by a factor 20l'"
I've never looked p figures, because I'm not that interested, so I just did and found this form the IRB themselves about the 2007 World Cup
Backing up the record attendance figures was massive interest from international broadcasters. In total 119 international broadcasters televised the action across 202 TV territories with a potential cumulative reach of over 4.2 billion (up 800 million on RWC 2003). Live coverage also increased dramatically on 2003 levels from 5,500 hours to over 8,500 broadcast hours (up 3,000 hours).
www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/ ... 22301.html
I don't know if you know what the word potential means, but it clearly says they can get to and doesn't say they did. A bit like our World Cup will be televised to so many countries next time round as brought up by Manly. The potential is huge, the reality of a worldwide viewing audience is less.
Quote ="dally messenger"3. Get friends in the media and politics to give special favours others dont get, espeically when your clubs go broke'"
www.dailytelegraph.com.au
Looking at the front page of this major paper's website shows that League is far more represented than say Union. It even has it's own section on the front page, separate to a Sports section, where you'll find other sports, including RL again.
As for politics, we have some important people at state level now who are behind giving RL a leg up. Including a few old North Sydney fans who have promised to build facilities if the bid is successful at Mt Colah. On a national level, Shadow Treasurer, Joe Hockey is a massive Bears fan and has done lots for the CC Bears bid. There are more, look them up.
Quote ="dally messenger"4. When you have lost a fair competition with rival sports get the government to intervene to save you ....if this government is connected with the Nazis who cares people will forget'"
OK. Fair call. This did happen and was disgusting.
Quote ="dally messenger"5. Fight rival sports for 100 years over certain issues then at the drop of the hat adopted those things yourself without any apologies for the war youve created'"
Fight? What fight? What war? That seems a bit sensationalist, though I do understand that RU have looked down at RL for many years. But in Oz, is that as true as it would be in the UK?
Quote ="dally messenger"6. Treat working class clubs and players differenetly to non WC clubs and players'"
This would have happen and still does to a much smaller degree, but again, does it in Oz as much? You played Union, what was it like? I'm from a London Comprehensive. We played football. The association version. That's what most of the working class played. In the norths they could also play League.
Quote ="dally messenger"7. when picking your national test side ensure that the lads come from university and posh schools, ensuring WC kids dont get a similar chance of getting picked'"
How many working class kids played Union when this sort of thing was prevelant.
I do understand what you're trying to say about how poor RL WAS treated by Union. Yes, I'm from a working class background and have been effected in England by the class led society and have been judged by my accent, appearance and the school I went to (which coincidentally was made infamous years later when the headmaster was stabbed to death outside in Maida Vale). But blimey, Charles Dickens is dead now. The Gin Palaces are shut. We've moved on. Things aren't that bad, there is no conspiracy theory. Let's concentrate on what we need to do. RL is a great sport and the more the negatives are highlighted the more they are focused on. I'm not sure there is some manifesto to obliterate league by Union. We are different. Let's celebrate that and move forward.
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| Soccer is unique..it is a trully global sport. Neither Rugby codes could ever compete with it...it is unstoppable.
Story 1....from the VT recently. A thread was entitled International Rugby League stronger than ever?
Quote ="Nat (Rugby_Aholic)"Excellent news from the RLIF, the MENA U16 Championship kicked off last night with Saudi Schools Select U16s beating a Palestinian U16s side 20-0.'"
Story 2....from the Dominion Post yesterday....a group of Spanish Schoolkids had sent a load of messages and pictures to kids in Christchurch as a way of showing support...loads of these pictures featured AB's? On further investigation, it was found that there are over 200 clubs with 21,000 registered Rugby Union players in Spain.
This shows a couple of things......firstly, whist the kids game in the Middle East is brilliant news, it's hardly proof the international game is stronger than ever. Next up...how CLEVER the Union lot can be....this was a feel good story about kids from across the world connecting with other kids........and with a tag-line that packed a punch.....in soccer mad spain, Union is getting more popular.
..I can roll out hundreds of more comparisons where League stumbles and Union doesn't.....things like taking ther Hong Kong 7's from a jolly weekend for pi55ed up bankers to an OLYMPIC sport..........whilst the international 9's league had has all but vanished....
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| Quote ="RB" but it clearly says they can get to and doesn't say they did.'"
Really? From the irb ruwc website:
Quote ="official union world cup website"“Rugby World Cup 2007 was a memorable Tournament,” said Rugby World Cup Chairman Dr Syd Millar. “The matches were competitive throughout, the venues full and a [size=150record global audience of over 4 billion watched the drama unfold on television[/size.'"
Maybe Dr syd mispoke.
Quote A bit like our World Cup will be televised to so many countries next time round as brought up by Manly.'"
Trouble is RB, when RL issues potential figures some ppl like come onto RL forums and, not to put too fine a point on it, rubbish them. Check the earlier pages of this thread.
Quote Let's concentrate on what we need to do. RL is a great sport and the more the negatives are highlighted the more they are focused on.'"
100% agree.
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| Quote ="liger1994"Please. The world cup is every 4 years and thats it. Outside of that the fans care about there clubs and thats it. The Champions league is the biggest thing in football. International games mean something at the major events and thats it. The fact that outside these major events you see a whole bunch of players pull out of squads only to be fit for the next club game tells u all you need to know. The clubs rule the roost. The biggest tv deals are dictated by the clubs. Football could easily survive without international football.'"
The European cup is every four years as well, add the Africans cup were clubs lose players in their season and the play de America you'll see for competitive internationals it's very much at the front of football.
FIFA runs the game not the epl or la liga.
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| Quote ="joedynamo"Really? From the irb ruwc website:
Maybe Dr syd mispoke.'"
Yep, looks like he got it wrong, spoke out of turn and made himself look a numpty or a liar.
Looks like the link I posted showed the official press release and even then the figures at the bottom about Cumulative doesn't say potential.
Nowadays as technology makes the world a smaller place there will be higher numbers placed next to the "cumulative" viewing figures columns. We should look up whether that means they can reach an audience of, or how many actually watched it.
To summarise, one bloke said something very wrong indeed and his word was taken as gospel, despite the official body itself clearly stating the truth saying it had a potential to be viewed by 4 billion. What he said is actually very misleading. There was a record 4 billion viewers "available", but in reality 4 billion certainly didn't watch it. Agreed?
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Quote ="joedynamo"Really? From the irb ruwc website:
Maybe Dr syd mispoke.'"
What is a "a cumulative global audience" BTW......was it this one
[urlhttp://www.rugbyworldcup.com/destinationnewzealand/news/newsid=2036054.html[/url that talks about what the audience was? Sorry, "cumulative audience"
For the record, I never said it was 4 billion...certain posters assumed I did. With a little countback, you can guestimate that it was more than the 30,000,000 you claim though.....given 13,300,000 watched it in the UK ( www.barb.co.uk)
Quote ="joedynamo"Trouble is RB, when RL issues potential figures some ppl like come onto RL forums and, not to put too fine a point on it, rubbish them. Check the earlier pages of this thread.'"
er......when did RL issue figures (from page 49 BTW)....?
What was said, by a poster who sometimes is more rabid than the other 2 self proclaimed defenders of thr RL faith...was
Quote ="manly4ever"Did you hear the 2013 rugby league world cup will be televised to over 100 countries?and they're predicting the final of the RLWC will be watched by more people then what the RUWC had..'"
I'd love to know who "they're' are also, 238 countries received television pictures of the RUWC.....this is not a disputed fact....are the 100 countries that will get the RLWC 2.38 times bigger
Quote ="joedynamo"100% agree.'"
I too agree that we should spend time talking up League..but given that 95% of the threads on these boards are based on the "atack is the best form of defense" attitude of the self appointed defeners of the RL faith, it will be tough
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Quote ="joedynamo"Really? From the irb ruwc website:
Maybe Dr syd mispoke.'"
What is a "a cumulative global audience" BTW......was it this one
[urlhttp://www.rugbyworldcup.com/destinationnewzealand/news/newsid=2036054.html[/url that talks about what the audience was? Sorry, "cumulative audience"
For the record, I never said it was 4 billion...certain posters assumed I did. With a little countback, you can guestimate that it was more than the 30,000,000 you claim though.....given 13,300,000 watched it in the UK ( www.barb.co.uk)
Quote ="joedynamo"Trouble is RB, when RL issues potential figures some ppl like come onto RL forums and, not to put too fine a point on it, rubbish them. Check the earlier pages of this thread.'"
er......when did RL issue figures (from page 49 BTW)....?
What was said, by a poster who sometimes is more rabid than the other 2 self proclaimed defenders of thr RL faith...was
Quote ="manly4ever"Did you hear the 2013 rugby league world cup will be televised to over 100 countries?and they're predicting the final of the RLWC will be watched by more people then what the RUWC had..'"
I'd love to know who "they're' are also, 238 countries received television pictures of the RUWC.....this is not a disputed fact....are the 100 countries that will get the RLWC 2.38 times bigger
Quote ="joedynamo"100% agree.'"
I too agree that we should spend time talking up League..but given that 95% of the threads on these boards are based on the "atack is the best form of defense" attitude of the self appointed defeners of the RL faith, it will be tough
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| [iBack in 1987, 300 million viewers from 17 countries tuned in to watch David Kirk lift the Webb Ellis Cup and in the five memorable tournaments since that seminal moment, TV audiences have ballooned, culminating in over four billion viewers in 238 countries watching RWC 2007 in France. Only the Olympic Games, Football World Cup and European Football Championships now have more television viewers.
RWC 2007 broadcast highlights:
• The global cumulative TV audience reached four billion for the first time[/i
The bit in bold "suggests" to many thay 4 billion viewers watched it. This is a poor case of misdirection, distortion of truth.
yet the next para, makes it slightly clearer what they actually meant. This is true. It did reach 4 billion. ie it had the capacity to get to an audience of 4 billion thanks to technology. However, we all know the reality is, is that that is a complete load of old bolloçks. That many people never tuned in to watch it. eg. Thanks to Satellites and cables, they can now transmit live to say somewhere like Egypt. There's an audience of 83 million to add to the cumulative viewers. Did they all watch it.....nah.
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| Quote ="RoosterBooster"To summarise, one bloke said something very wrong indeed and his word was taken as gospel, '"
Not quite RB, the former head of the irb (is he still the ruwc chairman?) said something very wrong..
Quote Nowadays as technology makes the world a smaller place there will be higher numbers placed next to the "cumulative" viewing figures columns.
We should look up whether that means they can reach an audience of, or how many actually watched it.'"
Already been done mate, tho you should also look up exactly what the irb counts in those cumulative figures, you may be surprised.
Do we use the same tactics as union...hard to say, the RLIF (or whatever its calling itself this week) isnt all I and many others would wish for. RL in general has always been really bad at promoting itself.
Its about time that changed imho.
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| Quote ="joedynamo"Not quite RB, the former head of the irb (is he still the ruwc chairman?) said something very wrong..'"
Joey, we both agree he is wrong and out of order. And to add to that, the website is misleading too. I can totally see why people think they spout a load of old harry.
Quote ="joedynamo"Already been done mate, tho you should also look up exactly what the irb counts in those cumulative figures, you may be surprised.'"
Just tell me please, it'd be easier.
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| Quote Just tell me please, it'd be easier.'"
Typical Southener living LA Dolce Vita while us, poor hardworking Northerners do all the work
Have a feeling I'll need to source this but its half one our time and Im knackered.
If thats ok with you like..
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| Quote ="Rooster Booster"This is a poor case of misdirection, distortion of truth'"
Gillette...the best a man can get. Who says?
Guinness...is it really good for you?
Do 9 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas? How do they know?
Avis! "We try harder."....but do they really
Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet.....really? How's the chemotherapy going?
Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach....really? Like where?
All of the above could also be called "misdirection or distortion of truth"...but they aren't...they are award winning advertising slogans, but still some on here refuse to admit that the IRB are miles ahead of league.
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| Quote ="joedynamo" but its half one our time and Im knackered'"
...don't forget to tuck the kids in
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| Quote ="joedynamo"icon_lol.gif Typical Southener living LA Dolce Vita while us, poor hardworking Northerners do all the work
Have a feeling I'll need to source this but its half one our time and Im knackered.
If thats ok with you like..'"
There's a shilling in it for you. You'd like that wouldn't you.
It's alright. I have no reason to disbelieve. It's just all too much energy and I'm drained. Besides I'm off to Chatswood soon for some Yum Cha.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"...don't forget to tuck the kids in
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is this one of your weird euphemisms GF?
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Gillette...the best a man can get. Who says?
Guinness...is it really good for you?
Do 9 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas? How do they know?
Avis! "We try harder."....but do they really
Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet.....really? How's the chemotherapy going?
Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach....really? Like where?
All of the above could also be called "misdirection or distortion of truth"...but they aren't...they are award winning advertising slogans, but still some on here refuse to admit that the IRB are miles ahead of league.
'"
having worked in adland for nearly 28 years (including at CDP in the late 80s where I worked on Hamlet), they can be suggested as misdirection so as to speak.
But they do differ in terms of someone announcing a statement of fact as opposed to a gimic or an endline to pull you in and hopefully remember. The fact you remembered so many from years ago shows that it works I guess.
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| Quote ="Rooster Booster"But they do differ in terms of someone announcing a statement of fact as opposed to a gimic or an endline to pull you in and hopefully remember.'"
I believe that at the time of the 4 billion comment Dr Syd Miller, was over 74 yrs of age. Now, I am never going to excuse a bare face lie, but could it possibly be that this silver surfer got his figures mixed up? I mean, "cumulative viewing figures"....really. Yes, the IRB wrang every last drop they could out of the increased reach in 2007, but 1 comment by an old man is hardly a hanging offence.
The rest of the references are exactly like GUINNESS IS GOOD FOR YOU.....because it might be true, it might not....it all depends on who you ask
As I have said, many times, SMOKE AND MIRRORS is what the ad business should be called....
Lastly..the 4 billion comment only pops up when the self appointed defenders of the RL faith feel slightly worried they might be losing ANOTHER debate. Seriously.....flick back trough some old threads...it's generally one of the gang of 2 who bring it up first......insecure as hell IMO.
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| Quote ="Rooster Booster"There's a shilling in it for you. You'd like that wouldn't you.
It's alright. I have no reason to disbelieve. It's just all too much energy and I'm drained. Besides I'm off to Chatswood soon for some Yum Cha.'"
Ya can go right off some ppl..
Hope its good, Enjoy.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Lastly..the 4 billion comment only pops up when the self appointed defenders of the RL faith feel slightly worried they might be losing ANOTHER debate. Seriously.....flick back trough some old threads...it's generally one of the gang of 2 who bring it up first......insecure as hell IMO.'"
granted.
Having never read the aforementioned article previous to today. It does come across as an attempt at misdirection at best, at worst, a bare faced lie.
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